This is a guest post by one of my Maremma clients, Violet Qu. Violet owns Cotton Candy (CC), a puppy from my May 2022 Sevro x Polar litter. Violet also owns a Great Pyrenese named Marshmallow. Violet took the Karen Pryor Academy Dog Trainer Foundations course before bringing CC home. She has been extremely succesful in training CC and a lot of the reason why is the excellent knowledge and skills the course gave her. I asked Violet if she would write a "review" of the course for my email newsletter and she did such an excellent job that I invited her to do a guest post on the blog. Enjoy!

A Tale of Two White Dogs, by Violet Qu

The big dog on the left is Marshmallow. He came to me as an 8-week-old fluff ball, with a mission to keep my chickens and barn cats from being picked off by the big bad wolves. He was my first dog. I didn’t know what I was doing. I watched a lot of Zak George videos and took a puppy training class over zoom (it was during Covid lockdown) where I learned to manipulate his body by using a lure. For the most part, things worked fine. Marshmallow learned to sit, lie down, stand up, shake, crawl, and so on. He even learned to fetch, which is somewhat unusual for a Great Pyrenees. But sometimes, when I asked him to do something, he would suddenly have this unbearable itch that he had to scratch, and then he would yawn, and then he would give a sideways glance at the ground before performing the task in slo-mo. I coined it “emergency itch” and sometimes asked with a sarcastic tone “really? must you right now?” For months, he was mouthy and I just ignored it. Everything I read said it would stop if I just kept ignoring it.


At the age of 1, Marshmallow’s guarding instincts kicked in in full force. He ran around the ranch barking and chasing coyotes at night, and often looked exhausted in the morning. However, the mouthiness remained. And he was also chewing just about everything I didn’t want him to chew on. Even though Marshmallow was doing all he could to guard my small ranch, I still had 2 chickens disappear without a trace and a barn cat mauled by what I could only imagine a coyote (the kitty fully recovered after veterinary intervention). The coyotes did not fear him. They kicked dirt at him from the other side of the fence. It was clear to me that Marshmallow needed a partner.


A few months later, Cotton Candy joined the family as a 3-month-old from the Prancing Pony Farm, where she had already learned many life skills as a livestock guardian dog. 


In preparation of CC’s arrival, I took the Dog Trainer Foundations online course from the Karen Pryor Academy. It turned out to be more helpful than I expected. Throughout Marshmallow’s puppyhood, I had been ransacking the internet for positive reinforcement dog training tips. But tips are exactly that: a melange of “do x” instructions. The DTF course provided me with the structure I needed to internalize the positive reinforcement training concept. I am not known for following instructions. So if a training tip says step 1: wait for behavior, step 2: click, step 3: treat, I’ll more than likely mess up the timing or order or skip a step. But if I understand the building blocks to positive reinforcement training, then I can “derive” my own instructions time and time again and always get it right. Other than the science and mechanics, I also found the chapter on understanding dog language really helpful. Marshmallow’s “emergency itch”? That’s stress. His yawning? That’s stress. Mouthiness? Yup, still stress. That poor pup! The whole time he’s been gently telling me that he could use a bit more support, and I’ve been an idiot trying to wait it all out. What also dawned on me, is that a lot of what I thought / was labeled positive reinforcement, wasn’t reinforcement at all. Dangling a piece of bacon to get a dog to sit is bribery, or non-contact coercion, if you will.


Now back to CC. She has received positive reinforcement training at Kim’s since the day she was born. By the time she arrived on my ranch, she knew how to mand and target really well. And that gave me plenty of opportunities to reinforce her and quickly build a trusting relationship. Eventually I taught her to shake, only because she looks incredibly cute doing that. But by golly she was so polite and never pawed me for attention like Marshmallow did when he was a pup. She knew that manding gets her attention and treats, and giving me her paw only when I ask gets her praise and treats. I haven’t intentionally taught her to come, but she figured it out because every time she comes to me she gets pets and she might even get to lick my face. She has a pretty good “go to bed” from a single training moment. It was her birthday and I had a serrano ham bone for her. I wanted to let her have it in the kennel without being bothered by Marshmallow. I walked towards the dog bed once we entered the kennel and she hopped on it. On the spur of the moment, I clicked, then gave her the ham bone. I later put it on cue, but really, the “go to bed” action was learned in just 1 event. 


She’s been here about a year now, and CC has never had an “emergency itch”. Now isn’t that interesting! More interestingly, Marshmallow’s “emergency itch” and chewing all but disappeared after CC’s arrival, which roughly coincided with the beginning of proper use of positive reinforcement on my end. Was it me? Was it CC? Only Marshmallow knows. What I do know is that with 2 happy relaxed dogs, my life has gotten easier. And we’ll just end the story here and live happily ever after.

So when one of my puppy owners or anyone else comes to me with a training issue with their dog, the very first thing I recommend is that they take the KPA Foundations course. Of course, if this is one of my puppy clients, I suggest they take the course before bringing their puppy home. Unfortunately, only some of them do. Whether it's the money or the time it takes or that they don't see the value in it, I don't know. 

I have considered requiring prospective puppy buyers to complete the course before they can buy a puppy from me, but someone has to want to learn this information for it to be effective, and unfortunately, not enough people understand the value of this program to them and their dogs.

I do require my breeding candidate owners to complete the course before they can get breeding rights on their puppies, and I am firm on this requirement. If you are a breeder, you are also a trainer, and this program is step one to being a successful trainer of little Livestock Guardian Dog puppies. Unfortunately, most people who take the course to get breeding rights choose to wait until their dogs are of breeding age to do so. Better late than never, but it's sad that neither the dog they bought from me nor the owner themselves benefitted from the program when their puppy was little. 

Of all the puppies I have sold over the years, the owners who have been the most successful and had the fewest problems training their pups are the ones that have taken the KPA Foundations Course. The puppies who have benefitted the most from an owner who truly understands their dog and how to communicate and train in a kind, fun, science-based way are the puppies whose owners have taken the Foundations course. This course truly is Step One in your success as an LGD owner. 

A Livestock Guardian Dog is a huge investement. The safety and security of whatever you value are riding on that dog, be that goats, chickens, horses, or the family cat. (This course is just as vital for companion Maremmas.) Livestock Guardian Dogs have a high failure rate, and that is because most people are ill-equipped to train their dogs. The Karen Pryor Acedemy Dog Trainer Foundations course gives you the vital first step towards success with your dog.

​Think of it as insurance on your investment. Most people wouldn't forego insurance on a new car. That would be too risky. Don't skip on insurance for your LGD! Take the KPA Foundations course before you bring home your new Maremma puppy. Or if you've already got that adorable pup, start the course now. Your dog will thank you for it, and you will thank me for this advice!

I will probably ruffle some feathers with this post, but something has been bothering me for a while, and I need to share my thoughts in my own rambling way. As a breeder and trainer of Maremma Sheepdogs and an advocate of the breed, I have been very vocal in how I believe Livestock Guardian Dogs should be raised and socialized as puppies. I firmly believe that LGD puppies should get a very early start with livestock and continue that way until they are grown. Puppies have critical socialization periods in the early weeks, and taking advantage of those periods by having them immersed with livestock at that age can ensure their future success as LGDs. 

I feel strongly about this issue because I have acquired puppies from breeders who raise their dogs as companion dogs in those first weeks and months. These pups were raised in houses, backyards, and patios, with no livestock exposure until they came to my farm at 3-4 months old. I have seen the effect of this lack of early livestock exposure on their training (it's a lot more work to train them) and how those dogs turned out compared to how my puppies turned out. I firmly believe that how I raise my pups is the best practice for LGDs, and what is advocated on some Facebook groups is terrible advice. I even wrote a blog post entitled "Debunking the Shepherd Way Myth of Livestock Guardian Dog Training."

I stand behind what I said in that post. However, I need to clarify what I mean by how I raise my puppies. I also have probably not understood what others mean when they refer to themselves as "shepherds."

After I wrote that blog post, I had an interesting discussion with someone in my Maremma Sheepdog Open Forum Facebook group who advocates the "Shepherd Way" of training. And I found that she and I had a lot more in common than we thought. So there is more of a communication issue than a conflict of beliefs here.

I have one adult Maremma named Titus, who is a companion dog. He lives inside my house full-time with my other three companion dogs. I bred him, and he was raised outside with the stock until he was 5 months old. He's been a house dog ever since. He is perfectly house-trained, leash-trained, and crate trained. He has gone on many walks in regular neighborhoods, to the dog park many times, to the vet, to the groomers, and on long car trips. None of this happened before he was 5 months old, but he quickly adjusted to this companion dog life.

​The "companion home" discussion is an issue for another post, which I hope to write soon. For years I turned down any requests for companion homes for my puppies. I did this primarily because of what other breeders said or what I read on Facebook. I now realize I missed out on many great homes for my pups for no good reason. And since I started saying "yes" to the occasional request for companion puppies, I have learned even more about these fantastic dogs. Choosing to keep one of my puppies as a companion dog has taught me even more. They really can thrive in pet homes. In the right home with a dedicated owner. Just like in working homes. It's primarily the commitment of the owner that matters. But again, that's a topic I plan to expand on another day.

Other than Titus, the rest of my Maremmas live outside with the livestock 24/7. They never come inside my house. But that is mainly because my house is several hundred feet from my barn and not attached by any fence. I would have to put them on a leash and walk them to my house to bring them inside. That is too much work when I am busy caring for a farm and running a business. But if my property were set up differently, I imagine my other Maremmas would come in to "visit" occasionally. Probably the goats, too. 😆

But because my dogs live outside, does that mean I'm not "shepherding" them? While I'm not too fond of the term, it's probably a relatively accurate description of my role with my dogs. I don't have an "off-farm" job. I run a business breeding dairy goats and Maremmas. I spend several hours a day outside taking care of my animals. I even sleep outside sometimes if puppies or goats are being born. Therefore I spend plenty of time bonding with my puppies and my dogs. I have no need to bring them into the house to bond with them because we bond outside. That is probably the main area where I differ from the "Shepherd Way" advocates.

I am NOT an advocate of the "hand-off" method of LGD training. Not at all. I utilize and advocate only positive training methods with my puppies. I also raise my puppies using Puppy Culture and Badass Breeder methods. I have a very carefully laid out puppy socialization program, exposing the puppies to sights, sounds, new people, and activities. This ensures that the puppies will be resilient and well-adjusted and thrive in various homes, including working or companion homes or something in between.

Another point I should make is that I sell puppies at 12 weeks or later. Most are in the 4-8 month range when they leave here. And I primarily sell puppies in pairs or to homes with another LGD, so there are no "8-week-old puppies alone in a barn" coming from my farm. Most of my pups are 50-60 lbs or more when they leave my farm. They aren't tiny babies.

​And if someone insists on owning a single LGD, I make it very clear that they will have to spend a lot of time with their puppy to compensate for the deficit. All of my dogs work in pairs or teams so I do not advocate single dogs alone with the livestock.

There is a person in the Maremma industry that I used to have a lot of respect for. I will call her "the Maremma guru" because that describes what she seems to believe she is. She is always talking about "what is true for white dogs" as if she is the only one that knows that truth. She seems to think she speaks for the Maremmas in much the same way that the Lorax speaks for the trees.

There are a lot of people in the LGD community that don't agree with her; people who have a much longer history and more experience with these dogs than she has. But she came onto the scene and declared herself the expert, refuting what people who had decades of experience said. I foolishly believed everything she said for a long time. I drank deeply from her particular brand of koolaide.

I used to tell people she knew more about the breed than anyone in the US. I promoted her tirelessly, referred many people to her for help and even had many links to her business on my own website. We had a lot in common and a lot we agreed on. There are still things we agree on.

But the more I got to know her, the more I realized that there was a lot that we disagreed on. There was a lot I felt like she was dead wrong about. (Like the Companion Maremma issue.) I no longer believe she knows as much as either of us thought she did. No one is right about everything. Being able to admit that is important. Eventually we parted ways and we are both better off for it. I know I am, anyway.

One thing I thought I had in common with her was this belief that the "Shepherd Way" was wrong. But as I talked to other people, I realized that I had more in common with advocates of the Shepherd Way than I thought and less with her. And I realized that being a shepherd is not a bad thing or a good thing. It's simply how some people describe their interactions with their dogs. It's a funny term, but I don't have a problem if people want to use it.

When the Maremma guru and I were still friends, she used to refer people to me occasionally to buy puppies. In almost every instance, she told me that she was "sending someone my way" because they were "not good enough" for her dogs, but they would be "fine" for me. I was always unsure about how I should take that. 🤔 It seemed like a backhanded compliment. But I appreciated the referrals.

Most of these people she "sent my way" never contacted me, but a few did buy dogs from me. The first time it happened, she later told me, "I can't believe you sold him a puppy." She didn't like the guy, and I think her referral was a test. Apparently I failed the test. I told her he was a very nice guy with a lovely farm, his other LGD needed a partner, and his sheep required protection. And I told her she shouldn't have referred him to me if she didn't want me to sell him a puppy. 🤷🏻‍♀️ That ended the discussion.

Another time she referred someone to me to buy a puppy as a partner for her adult LGD. She told me the client used an invisible fence, and I "would have to discuss what to do about that" with her. Again, this seemed like a test. I talked to the client. She told me she has an easement that requires her neighbors to drive through her property to get to their house. This means she can't have a gate across her road. She uses only positive training with her dogs and cats but uses an invisible fence to keep them safe. I have a couple of fence jumpers, so I understand that dilemma. A hotwire at the top of my fence was the only solution I found that worked. And an invisible fence makes sense for this client. It certainly is better than a dog getting out. Being hit by a car is as aversive as you can get. 😢 I gladly sold her the puppy, and she's been one of my best clients yet. I hear from her almost weekly, with frequent photos and updates. I may have failed the Maremma guru's test, but my puppy won, big time, in getting a wonderful home, invisible fence and all.

​Another person was referred to me by the Maremma guru around the same time as the invisible fence client. The Maremma guru had sold dogs to this new client's neighbors and repossessed them later. (She did this frequently whenever a new owner did something she disapproved of.) I knew about that situation because the Maremma guru told me about it without remorse. And why, you might ask, did the Maremma guru repossess the dogs? What terrible thing did the clients do? She told me they "made the dogs into pets." Meaning they let them in the house occasionally. Shocking, I know.

When my new client came to me, she was extremely nervous about buying dogs, partly because she had seen what the Maremma guru had done to her neighbors. She told me it was traumatic, with lots of begging, crying, and screaming when the dogs were taken away. I was later told by another party that those people had bought the dogs from the Maremma guru in the first place because their previous dog had died. Of course, that made the whole situation all the more traumatic. I can't imagine inflicting that kind of pain on people without just cause. And just cause would be something like abuse of the dogs. That was not the case here, from what I've heard.

My new client had already placed a non-refundable $1000 deposit on two pups, but when the dogs were ready to go, she was still having second thoughts. Until the day she took them home, she debated backing out on the sale. She was apprehensive that something would go wrong. And a lot of the reason why she was so worried was because of her neighbor's experience with the Maremma guru.

The client lives in Oregon, so she drove to my farm in California "for a visit and to maybe get the pups." Her visit required two days and an overnight hotel stay. On the first day, she spent five hours at my farm, interacting with the puppies and asking me a million questions. She asked me what she should do if she wanted to go on a trip. Could she take the dogs? Her husband races cars, and they go out of state for his races. She wanted to know if it would be ok if they brought the dogs along. I told her that as long as her livestock would be safe at home, there was no reason not to take the dogs if she wanted them to go. 

This client spent five hours asking me one question after another like she was testing me to see if there would be something I would say that would be a red flag to her. She was worried that she would do something wrong and that I would repossess the dogs like the Maremma guru had done to her neighbors. 

I finally told her that while the Maremma guru and I agreed on a lot and respected her very much, I was not her. I did things very differently and I was not going to repossess her dogs. I told her that once the dogs left my farm, they were no longer mine, and it was not my business or choice what she did with the dogs. I told her what I always say to my clients. "They are your dogs; you can do whatever you want with them. You don't need my permission or my blessing." 

She went to her hotel to think it over. Then she called the following day to tell me she was buying the puppies. She came and got the two she had liked the best and took them home. And she has been a wonderful puppy owner. I don't know if the dogs ever go on race car trips with her and her family. It's not my place to ask. They are no longer my dogs.

Now I would not advocate anyone doing anything to harm their dogs, and that includes using aversive training methods. But if somebody wants to take their dogs on outings or on vacation or let them sleep in the house with them every night, that is their business. Truly.

This is not to say that I don't believe that my way of training is not superior to how a lot of people manage their dogs. I do. How I train works best for me as a breeder, and it's what works best for my livestock. Having owned dogs raised my way and the opposite way, I would never again buy a puppy from anyone who doesn't raise puppies the way I do. No more patio puppies for me! But that's my personal choice, based on what works for me. 

And I will continue to raise my puppies the way I do while they are under my care because it's the ideal way to raise, train and socialize LGDs. The proof is in the dogs I have produced over the years. But once those puppies leave here and go to their new homes, they are no longer my dogs. And my puppy owners need to do what works for them and their new dogs. 

So don't worry. If you buy one of my puppies and want to do things differently from the way I do, I will not be mad at you. I'm not going to tell you you're doing it wrong. Instead, I will do my best to support you. Because it is not my dog anymore. It's your dog.

1) Does the Maremma Sheepdog breeder focus on selling "affordable" dogs?
Here's where we answer the burning question, "How much does a Maremma Sheepdog cost?" The answer is it depends on what the buyer and the breeder value. There are breeders out there, even Code of Ethics breeders, who emphasize providing "affordable" dogs to people. They claim that farmers can't afford expensive dogs, and maybe in some cases, that's true, but in reality, what someone can or can't "afford" has more to do with what they value than how much they make. 

We all have things we spend money on that others think are frivolous. And in an age when a "Doodle" or your average lap dog is $3000-5000, I don't believe that high quality, well-socialized registered Maremma puppies out of proven working, health-tested parents that will grow up to be responsible for the very lives of the farmer's other animals aren't worth at least as much as these fancy pet dogs. 

I have no problem with doodles or lap dogs. I am highlighting the disparity in our thinking when such dogs are seen as more valuable than well-bred working dogs that will fulfill a crucial role. As breeders, let's aim higher. We are ethically responsible for raising the bar for the breed we claim to love. 

The push for "affordable" registered Maremmas primarily comes from lazy, irresponsible, and apathetic breeders. Breeding and properly starting quality working Maremma puppies takes a lot of money and a lot of hard work. The cost of puppy food alone, as well as food for the parents, is out of this world. Then there's health testing for the parents before you even breed them. There are vet bills, vaccines, external and internal parasite prevention, microchips, grooming expenses, and other supplies. It adds up so fast!

And caring for and raising puppies, while very rewarding, is a lot of work. Puppies and parents need to be fed and groomed. Pups must be dewormed, vaccinated, weighed, cleaned, and sometimes bottle-fed if the litter is large. The whelping box must be changed daily, which means lots of laundry. And once mom stops cleaning up the puppy poop, guess whose job it is?! Puppies must be socialized with livestock while keeping safe from hooves, beaks, extreme temperatures, and bad weather. They also need to be socialized with humans and encounter as many novel experiences as possible so that they mature into safe, stable, resilient dogs instead of feral creatures.

So how does a breeder produce "affordable" pups while doing all of the above? They don't. Instead, they cut corners and make compromises. Health testing? Too expensive! We'll skip that, and if the puppy ends up with Hip Dysplasia, we'll blame the owner. We weren't planning to give a health guarantee, anyway. 

Quality dog food? No, we'll buy one of those cheap, inferior brands instead. And make sure not to "overfeed" the pups or mom. A cozy whelping box with interchangeable pads that we'll need to change and wash daily? More work. How about a bare kiddie pool in a cold garage? No blanket is necessary. Just hose it out as needed. Never mind that the slick plastic is not only cold but could do lasting damage to the puppies' joints. Efficiency is what matters. 

Or whelp the puppies in the barn, no matter the time of year. Throw a little hay in a corner of the sheep or goat pen. Half the pups die of exposure or heat stroke or are stepped on by livestock, but that's an "acceptable" loss for breeders who prioritize "affordable" over other things. 

Toys, treats, and enrichment activities? More expensive and requires more work. We'll skip all that in the name of "not making pets out of the pups ."Yep, that sounds like a good excuse for neglect. 

Are we socializing puppies with livestock? That's too much work for the profit-driven, irresponsible breeder. It would be easier to keep them locked in the garage, patio, small kennel, or a stall in the barn. But minimal effort and work are what matters. We're just warehousing them until they are weaned and ready to go home. And ASAP!

And that is how you raise "affordable" pups! Granted, not every breeder of "affordable" puppies cuts every corner mentioned. But they all cut some of them and others not listed. They all make sacrifices to produce pups with minimal effort and expense. And the puppies, their future owners, and the livestock they are supposed to protect all too often pay the price. And the breed as a whole pays the price since these breeders perpetuate practices that aren't in the breed's best interest.

If "affordable pups" matters most to you, you shouldn't have too much trouble finding that. But if high-quality, well-bred, correctly socialized, and healthy pups are what you're looking for, then read on to learn to read between the lines and pick the right breeder. 

2) Does the Maremma Sheepdog breeder have a Breeding Program, or do they breed dogs? And if they do have a Breeding Program, is their program in line with your needs and values?
There is a very distinct and essential difference between "breeding dogs" and having a breeding program. Someone who "breeds dogs" is usually in it strictly for the money and is not committed to doing everything they can to best serve their dogs, clients, or breed. A "Breeding Program" is carefully thought out with specific goals and carried out intentionally to achieve those goals. These goals may or may not align with what you are looking for but understanding the difference and learning about the breeder's "program" as a whole, instead of just about their available puppies, will help you decide if they are the breeder for you. Not every breeder is suitable for every potential puppy owner. Understanding the breeder's goals and values and how they align with yours is the most critical step in choosing a breeder.

3) Does the Maremma Sheepdog breeder have any expertise, training, and experience in their field? 
How long has the breeder been breeding Maremmas? Have they bred any other breeds? Has the breeder taken any professional courses like dog training, behavior, or puppy socialization courses? Have they worked in dog-related professions, such as dog grooming or veterinary medicine? Do they run a working farm or ranch raising one or more livestock species or only have a few pet animals? Or do they even have any livestock at all? (A breeder with no livestock should not be breeding working LGDs. Puppies have critical socialization windows in the first weeks and must be exposed to livestock before this window closes.) Everyone has to start somewhere, but the more experience a breeder has as a dog breeder, livestock producer, or in another capacity working with animals in general and dogs in particular (especially Livestock Guardian Dogs), the better. After all, a breeder needs to be able to support their puppy owners as they raise and train their pups. A breeder can only help people with enough education and experience to draw from.

4) Does the Maremma Sheepdog breeder have a website, and if so, is it relevant and up to date? 
Ok, this might seem like a strange question but hear me out. Very few reputable businesses these days operate without a website. A website is the most crucial marketing tool for any business owner and the people the business serves. According to Forbes.com, "every business needs a website". A well-built and up-to-date website builds credibility, showcases a company's brand (who they are and what they stand for), streamlines customer service, and so much more. A breeder who can't be bothered to build a website is not very committed to their dogs or clients. They are likely "just breeding dogs," not running a well-thought-out and intentional breeding program. 

And if they have a website but you still need help finding information on available puppies, photos, pedigrees, and health test results of the parents, you are unlikely to receive good customer service before or after the sale. It may be just me, but having a relevant and up-to-date website separates professionals from amateurs in any field. 

5) Does the Maremma Sheepdog breeder have a good social media following?
A breeder's website is always first and foremost in building credibility but being active on social media also shows their commitment to educating and supporting their clients and anyone interested in the breed. Businesses engage their customers and like-minded individuals on many social media platforms. Breeders are busy doing the work it takes to run their businesses, raise quality dogs, and meet the needs of their clients, so expecting them to be active on every social media platform is unreasonable. But if they have business accounts on one or two platforms, such as Facebook and Instagram, and they are reasonably active there, as well as some breed or species-relevant groups, then checking out their posts can give you a feel for who they are, what they stand for and how much credibility they have with their audience. Their audience should include clients who have bought puppies from them. If a breeder gets little to no client engagement, that's a red flag.

6) Does the Maremma Sheepdog breeder use their website and social media platforms to educate, encourage and inspire others interested in the breed?
Time is always at a premium when breeding dogs and running a farm. Still, most passionate and dedicated breeders will find time to reach out to others. A reputable Maremma Sheepdog breeder cares about more than just selling puppies. They are advocates for the breed and the people who love these dogs as much as they do. They write blog posts and website pages to help others with their dogs, no matter where they acquired them. They share links to products they find helpful on their website. They post fun and educational content on their own and from other sources on their social media accounts. They always think about how something they could share might bless Maremmas and their owners and make time to do so whenever possible.  

7) Does the Maremma Sheepdog breeder use their dogs to actively guard livestock?
This one is crucial. You would be surprised how many people decide to breed Livestock Guardian Dogs but don't use their dogs as Livestock Guardians. This practice has been popular with breeds like Great Pyrenees for years, where they are often bred exclusively for the show or pet market. One of the reasons Maremmas are such great Livestock Guardian Dogs is that they have yet to be overbred for the pet/show market. Therefore they retain more of their working instinct. However, some disreputable breeders are attracted to the "rarity" of the Maremma Sheepdog breed and breed solely for profit and "bragging rights ."Usually, they have a "farm." but it's more of a fancy estate in a "horsey subdivision" than an actual working farm or homestead. At most, they may own a few chickens, a horse, a mini cow, or some pet sheep.

Photos of their dogs and puppies with livestock will be very sparse if there are any at all. This lack of photos isn't because they are too busy to take pictures. It's because their dogs and puppies don't live with the livestock but are pets who spend most of their time lounging around the pool or sleeping on the patio. Their dogs may be beautiful, well-bred, and health tested, but they aren't Livestock Guardians. They may deter predators by their mere presence. Still, a Livestock Guardian Dog that doesn't live WITH livestock is an Estate Guardian, not an LGD. 

And if the dogs don't live with the stock, you should ask yourself and the breeder two crucial questions. Why don't the dogs live with the livestock? (Probably because they aren't trustworthy with stock.) And how can dogs who don't live with livestock train their puppies to be Livestock Guardian Dogs? 

And bonus question - how can a breeder who doesn't know how to train their adult dogs to live safely with livestock possibly train their puppies to do so?

I once had a breeder tell me that most of her puppies go to fancy estates to "keep coyotes from pooping on the lawns" and to "guard trees" in wealthy people's orchards. Based on what I observed, that is how she uses her dogs. That might be ok if these breeders limited themselves to selling puppies only to people who need to use their dogs how they do. But they don't. They also sell pups to unsuspecting real farmers who need a dog who will be safe and reliable with delicate stock like goats and chickens. And when that proud new puppy owner brings home one of these "estate guardian" puppies, they may find that turning that puppy into a safe, reliable Livestock Guardian Dog is challenging, if not downright impossible. 

If you need a beautiful dog to guard your swimming pool, buy from one of these "estate guardian" breeders. But if you need your dog to protect your chickens and goats instead of eating them, I advise you to keep looking. Otherwise, you may eventually need to replace your dog and some of your livestock.

8) Does the Maremma Sheepdog breeder have proven working genetics in their program and a way to track their dogs? Is this information readily accessible to potential buyers?
This is where a website is invaluable in helping potential buyers do their research. Ideally, you will see a page for each breeding dog on the breeder's website, with registered names listed and photos, pedigrees, and health testing information. Then you should see litter pages with the parents listed, links to their pages, and pictures and information on the puppies. 

I'd want as much information about the breeder's program as possible. How they socialize and care for their puppies, what kind of livestock their dogs guard, their sales and visitor policies, their training style, information on shipping, testimonials from clients, and more. 

And most important of all - you should see lots and lots of photos and videos of the parent dogs and the puppies living with livestock. A breeder with little to no photos of their dogs and puppies with stock is a huge red flag. Everyone has a camera in their pocket these days. It's built into their phone. There's no excuse for any breeder not to have photographic evidence that their dogs and puppies live with livestock unless they don't.

You may be new to all this, and it may be overwhelming, but having the information readily available on a website is much better than getting a disorganized breeder to text or email all of this information to you. A conscientious breeder will happily answer your questions and share whatever information you need to decide whether their breeding program is for you. 

If they don't have a website, they should be prompt in providing the information and documents you need. If the breeder is reluctant to answer questions or if getting documents like pedigrees and health test results is difficult, then they are probably not trustworthy.

9) Does the Maremma Sheepdog breeder provide any Health Testing for their breeding dogs?
This one is a major red flag if the answer is no. Genetic defects can be devastating in any dog, especially in working Livestock Guardian Dogs. Without a doubt, the most common and most problematic is Hip Dysplasia. Maremmas are considered a giant breed, and giant breeds are more at risk for hip dysplasia because of their size and rapid growth rate. Livestock Guardian Dogs are hardworking dogs who often patrol rough terrain and must be ready to act immediately. A dog suffering from arthritis caused by Hip Dysplasia can't effectively do their jobs. This condition causes debilitating pain for the dog and puts the livestock at risk. 

Many factors contribute to Hip Dysplasia, including diet and exercise while the puppy grows, as well as injuries and other factors that cause stress on the joints. Even parents with excellent hips can produce puppies with hip dysplasia. Screening of the parents is not a guarantee your puppy won't have problems but it is the first and most crucial step in minimizing risk. All breeding stock should be screened  through either PennHip or OFA and only dogs with scores that are above average for the breed should be bred. If you know more about the other dogs in the pedigree or related dogs and they score well overall, that's even better. Knowledge is power, truly.

What's not ok is a breeder not testing their breeding dogs and simply telling you their dogs "have good hips ."You can only know for sure with the proper diagnostic tests, and if a breeder tells you this, they are lying. Most likely, they have bad hips in their line and don't want to admit it, or they don't want to spend the money and care more about profits than breeding healthy dogs. 

You may think you can save money by buying these cheaper dogs, but it could be costly in the long run. The costs of vet bills, pain medications, and expensive surgeries will far outweigh any savings you may have made on buying an "affordable puppy ."Your dog could become so debilitated that it can't work, necessitating the purchase of a replacement dog or putting your livestock at risk. And sadly, some dogs are so crippled by this horrible condition that they must be put down, which is a heartbreaking and devastating experience. 

Do you want to be the one to watch your puppy suffer in pain from crippling arthritis before she's even grown? Do you want to have to put that poor, sweet dog down to spare her a lifetime of agony? It happens more than you think because greedy, unethical breeders value profits over what's best for the dogs, their potential owners, and the breed as a whole. So do yourself a favor and don't buy potential heartache. And do the right thing for the breed and everyone else who loves and depends on these dogs by not enabling these disreputable breeders.

Other health tests are helpful in making breeding decisions, such as testing for elbow dysplasia and DNA screenings. A breeder doing these tests is a bonus, but beware of a sneaky trend. Many breeders do only DNA testing but no screening for Hip Dysplasia whatsoever. The reason for this is pure deception. A DNA test is under $200 and it takes a minute to swab the dog's cheek. A screening for Hip Dysplasia, through OFA or PennHip, costs on average $400-1000 and requires a trip to the vet (sometimes a specialist). 

Disreputable breeders will do the DNA test and advertise their dogs as "health tested" when they have not tested for the most critical condition a Livestock Guardian Dog is at risk for and the one most likely to affect its ability to do its job. I would not trust such a shady breeder who would use this premeditated and shameful deception.

10) Does the Maremma Sheepdog breeder offer a 2-year health guarantee?
Hand in hand with health testing, a sign of a reputable breeder is a Health Guarantee, preferably covering the first two years of the puppy's life. Shockingly the MSCA Code of Ethics doesn't require breeders to provide a Health Guarantee of any kind. It only requires a contract, and there are no guidelines on what should be included. 

I didn't realize this when I first purchased my breeding dogs, nor did I understand the importance of a health guarantee. I bought dogs from 5 different Code of Ethics breeders, and only two provided health guarantees. I was fortunate that none of my dogs had any health issues. 

Still, I know of people who bought dogs from such breeders and were not so lucky when their dogs were diagnosed with severe Hip Dysplasia at an early age, even under a year old. I've heard similar stories with other breeds. When the owners returned to these breeders seeking help, the breeders accused the owners of causing the problem (despite veterinary evidence) and refused to give any compensation. The buyers had no recourse. They were left with a debilitated dog in constant pain that couldn't do their jobs and ongoing vet bills. And no protection for their stock. 

Of course, by the time the problem was discovered, they loved their dogs too much to give them up, so they had to purchase another dog to guard their livestock while also paying expensive vet bills to try to help the dog, who is now basically a companion dog. So much for saving money on "affordable" puppies. The price of an "affordable" dog is very high, indeed.

Now that I know better, I would only buy a puppy with a 2-year health guarantee again and with a complete understanding of the warranty terms. You might save some money by purchasing an "affordable" puppy, but it could cost you more money and much heartache in the long run. A 2 year health guarantee is there to protect the buyer if, despite all the breeder's efforts to prevent it, health problems do occur. Think of the health guarantee as insurance. You hope you'll never need it, but you sure want it to be there if you do.

Breeding Livestock Guardian dogs is expensive. Dog food alone is a considerable expense. Breeders who sell puppies cheaply must cut corners to make ends meet. Even some Code of Ethics breeders prioritize "affordable" dogs over essential things like health guarantees. It's the buyer who loses every time. And the puppies.

11) Does the Maremma Sheepdog breeder offer a contract?
A contract protects both the buyer and the breeder, and most of all, the puppy. All reputable breeders should provide a written contract with clearly laid out terms. The breeder and the buyer should sign the contract before the puppy goes to its new home. 

Ideally, the breeder has a sample of their contract posted on their website so that the buyer can read it before reserving their puppy. Then the contract is updated with all the puppy and buyer's info before signing. The Code of Ethics has no contract standard, and non-COE breeders aren't even required to use a contract. 

Based on the dogs I bought from other breeders, I have seen everything from over-the-top ridiculous contracts with threats and "thou shall not"s to equally ridiculously vague and incoherent ones. I try hard to make my contract fair and straightforward, protecting the buyer, myself as a breeder, and the puppy. I regularly evaluate my contract and rewrite it if I need to. 

12) Does the Maremma Sheepdog breeder socialize their puppies with livestock from a very early age?
I have entire blog posts written about this topic, which I feel very strongly about. I won't go in-depth about the subject, other than to say if the breeder doesn't have their puppies near livestock by at least three weeks (preferably sooner) and living full time with at least a few gentle goats or sheep and maybe some chickens by a minimum of 5 weeks old then that puppy will never live up to their full potential as Livestock Guardian Dogs. 

Puppies have critical socialization periods in the first weeks. They must encounter what you want them to be comfortable with to get the most benefit from these periods. And for Livestock Guardian Dogs, socialization with livestock during this time is crucial. If puppies are deprived of livestock past about eight weeks of age, they will be adversely affected for life. For more information on this topic, please read the following pages and posts:

• The Prancing Pony Farm Difference - How We Raise and Train Our Maremma Sheepdog Puppies
• How to Bond Your New LGD Puppy to Your Livestock and the Importance of Early Socialization with Livestock in LGD Puppies
• Will my LGD's Behavior with Livestock Improve? What are Critical Learning Periods in Puppies, Why Do They Matter, and What Should you do if You've Missed Them?
• Debunking the "Shepherd Way" Myth of Training Livestock Guardian Dogs - Science Versus Social Media Gurus
• How to Raise and Train Outstanding Livestock Guardian Dogs - How We Integrate Our Maremma Puppies into Our Dairy Goat Herd 
• Our "Puppy Parlor," Our Maremma Sheepdog Whelping and Training Facility
• The Perfect Place to Rear and Train Livestock Guardian Dogs - Our Puppy Parlor Gets Some Upgrades, Plus a Little Backstory on Why and How We Built It.

13) What is the breeder's socialization and training program for the puppies beyond livestock training?
Socialization with livestock is only part of what is needed to turn puppies into successful, well-rounded LGDs. Puppies also need positive interactions with humans, including children, during their early weeks and exposure to various sights, sounds, and experiences. Puppies deprived of these experiences can become fearful or even aggressive dogs that are difficult to manage and dangerous to handle.

Likewise, puppies should be trained with only positive and humane training methods. In their position statement on humane dog training, The American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior (AVSAB) states, "Evidence supports the use of reward based methods for all canine training. AVSAB promotes interactions with animals based on compassion, respect, and scientific evidence. Based on these factors, reward-based learning offers the most advantages and least harm to the learner’s welfare. Research supports the efficacy of reward-based training to address unwanted and challenging behaviors. There is no evidence that aversive training is necessary for dog training or behavior modification."

Experts agree and science has proven that dogs learn best through positive reinforcement. Aversive training methods reduce learning and can adversely affect the dog's trust in humans. Breeders who rely on force, punishment, and control to manage their puppies or who advocate that their puppy owners do so could be causing irreparable harm to the dogs.

14) Does the breeder provide lifetime support for the puppy and their owner?
The breeder should always be the first source of advice and encouragement for any puppy owner, particularly concerning training and management. Sadly many breeders give little to no support to their customers once the puppy leaves their possession. This forces puppy owners to seek other sources for advice. There are few good books or other reliable sources of information on managing and training LGDs, so puppy owners often turn to social media for help. Most of these groups are full of misinformation and very harmful recommendations given by people without real training or experience. These groups can cause more harm than good for the puppy and the owner and waste time. It would be better to buy a puppy from a breeder who is willing and able to help their clients than to end up having to figure it out as you go.

15) Does the breeder offer a lifetime return policy on their puppies?
Life doesn't always go as planned. Farms are sold, divorce and deaths happen, and circumstances change. Sadly not everyone can keep their dogs forever, even if they want to. It's stressful enough to deal with a challenging situation without worrying about what will happen to the dog.

An unethical breeder refuses to help their puppies or owners. They would prefer those dogs end up in a rescue situation than step in and help. Profits and convenience drive them. Taking back dogs is neither profitable nor convenient.

Ethical breeders believe they are responsible for the dogs they bring into this world for life. They support their puppies and owners, even if some dogs need to return to them. If a breeder isn't willing to provide that commitment, they should not be breeding dogs. ​

​Here at Prancing Pony Farm we are Maremma Sheepdog Club of America Code of Ethics breeders. We breed exceptional quality Maremma Sheepdogs that are registered with the MSCA. We put a lot of work into our breeding program and provide our puppy buyers with a contract, which protects both the buyer and us as breeders. This contract is required by the Code of Ethics and is a legally binding document. No puppy leaves our farm without the buyer signing a puppy contract. Every buyer is afforded the opportunity to read the contract before they sign it, and they are given a copy before they take home their puppy.

If you have seen Maremma Sheepdog puppies advertised anywhere on the internet besides our website or social media accounts you should know that as of March 14th, 2023, there is no one but us who currently has or ever has had breeding rights on any Maremmas we've bred. Every single puppy we have ever sold to date has gone on Limited Registration, which means no litters can be registered and no litters should be produced, even unregistered litters.

We have a very carefully laid out Breeding Candidate program, designed to protect the breed as a whole and the individual dogs we have bred. This requires health testing (with passing hip scores and more) from the parents and several requirements that both the dogs and the owners must meet. Then and only then will we sign the “Revoke Limited Registration Status” form from the MSCA. To see our requirements to breed one of our puppies please visit the page below:

We do have a few clients who are in the process of completing their requirements and will receive the Full Registration (and breeding rights) on their dogs soon, but no litters already whelped and being advertised by anyone but us (as of 3/14/23) are legal litters. Anyone who advertises “Prancing Pony Farm ________” as a parent of their puppies, or admits that any of those dogs came from us, is in direct violation of the contract they signed. (And of course they are in violation even if they don't admit it.) Those puppies are ineligible for registration and will never be allowed to be registered.

In fact, we do know of certain individuals who have violated the puppy contracts they signed when they bought their dogs and have illegally bred those dogs. In some cases the dogs were not even old enough to be bred, which puts great risk on the dogs and the puppies. Some have illegally bred their dogs more than once. This is no one time, accidental breeding, but a premeditated plan to steal that which doesn't rightfully belong to them. None of the dogs have had their health testing done, so it's possible they could be producing puppies with health problems such as hip dysplasia. That's exactly what the contract and requirements are meant to protect against and exactly why we do not give Full Registration status to untested dogs.

Some of these individuals are so bold that they are advertising their puppies with our name attached to them, leading potential buyers to believe they had our permission to breed their dogs. They did not. This activity is illegal, unethical and a blatant violation of the contract they signed. No one may breed our dogs or advertise using our farm name unless they have received breeding rights.

The only way you will know that the person who is advertising pups from our lines is doing so legally is to ask to see the registration certificates of the parents. If they don't have a registration certificate they do not have permission to breed the dog. If they have a registration certificate but it says "Limited Registration" then that means they have illegally bred the dog, in violation of the contract they signed and the puppies may not be registered. If they have a registration certificate that says "Full Registration", then and only then do they have breeding rights on the dog we bred and then and only then are their puppies eligible for registration with the Maremma Sheepdog Club of America.

So if you see anyone other than us advertising Prancing Pony Farm puppies on Social media, on their own website, on the official MSCA website or Facebook page or anywhere else, and they can't produce proof of Full Registration status on their dogs (via an Official MSCA registration certificate showing Unlimited registration), then please understand that these puppies were illegally produced, and these people are in violation of their legally binding contract. Don't take their word for it. Ask for proof!

For that matter I suggest you ask for proof of registration status of the parent dogs no matter who the breeder is. Responsible, ethical breeders work very hard to protect the integrity of their breeding programs and the breed. People who illegally breed dogs harm ethical breeders and the breed. I would hope that you would not support anyone who is engaging in this unethical behavior.

But maybe you are considering buying a puppy from such a breeder anyway. Maybe you think it's "not your problem" and perhaps that you can get a puppy cheaper by buying a "black market" puppy. But you should ask yourself one very important question. If this unethical breeder is willing to violate the legally binding contract they signed and to illegally produce puppies, can you really trust them to act in an ethical manner with you, as a buyer? Probably not. Leopards don't change their spots.

Our Maremma Sheepdog puppies are born in our Puppy Parlor, where they have a safe, climate controlled environment in which to grow. The Puppy Parlor sits in one of our goat pastures, and is also used for milking the goats, treating any sick or injured goats and even occasionally for kidding if the weather outside is bad. Because of this our puppies are surrounded by the sights, sounds and smells of the goats (and other livestock) from birth. But once the puppies reach about three weeks old their eyes and ears are fully open, they are steady on their feet and are climbing out of their whelping box. This is when the Socialization Phase of puppy development starts, and when the real fun begins! The puppies are now able to navigate the dog doors (with a little help) and begin going outside and exploring the wide world of our farm. We have carefully designed our Puppy Parlor and its attached pasture so that the puppies make a safe, smooth transition from tiny little fur balls to Livestock Guardian Dogs. Watch the video below to see the beginning stage of this journey. We’ve added a voiceover to the video to further explain the process. Enjoy!

The other day I posted a cute photo of one of my 8 week old Maremma puppies (these puppies but not this photo) with my goats. It was just a chance photo I caught and it was cute, so I did a quick IG/FB post, captioning it "Where an 8 Week Old LGD Puppy Belongs". I took it a step further and shared it on a few LGD groups. As I was doing so I was already deciding that this needed to be a blog post because the topic was too in-depth for just a social media post. So I started working on the blog post but went ahead and put the "readers' digest condensed version" on social media. Here is the post:

As expected I got immediate push-back on Facebook. Most people agreed with me but a couple didn't. Here are some of the comments I received. Instead of getting into a Facebook war I decided to address the concerns here:

Comment: "The way you phrased it, every LGD puppy belongs in with the livestock, even if they just got picked up by their next owner at eight weeks."

Reply: I hear over and over that it's "unsafe" for an 8 week old puppy to be alone in a barn. And of course I agree 100% with this. Where an 8 week old puppy belongs is in the breeder's barn or pastures with its parents, litter-mates and/or other mentor dogs, and with livestock, not with an inexperienced new owner, especially if this is a single puppy, being placed without either a partner or a mentor dog. The answer to this issue is simple. Don't buy puppies from breeders who send their pups home at 8 weeks old. Don't enable this lazy and irresponsible style of dog breeding and puppy rearing.

​I plan to write an entire post about this topic but the answer is that in most cases 8 weeks is too young for LGD puppies to go to new homes. Most LGD puppies are bought by first time owners who have no clue how to either properly socialize a puppy to livestock or how to keep the puppy safe and supported while doing so. Having the puppy stay in training with the breeder a few more weeks can make a huge difference both in the success of the puppy as a LGD and in its safety when it is brought home.

These 8 week old puppies are still babies. Their place is here, on my farm, with their litter mates and learning from their parents and other mentor dogs as well as my experienced puppy trainer  livestock for at least a month or two more.

As the pups grow we utilize other dogs besides their dams as puppy mentors. We are very careful to only choose dogs that are patient and gentle with the puppies and do not encourage or allow our dogs to "correct" the puppies. Puppies who are treated harshly by adult dogs can become aggressive or fearful and neither makes a safe and trustworthy LGD.  

The Real "Backyard Breeders"

Of course if the breeder isn't properly socializing the puppies to livestock in the first place then you're better off bringing home that puppy ASAP, if you are determined to buy from that kind of breeder. (I don't recommend it.)

There's a lot of criticism for "Backyard Breeders" out there. Usually this refers to breeders who are raising unhealthy, uncared for puppies from poor quality breeding stock, but often times the term is used as a weapon by breeders to judge other breeders. In my opinion the real "backyard breeders" are the people raising Livestock Guardian Dog puppies in their backyard (or in their home) instead of with livestock.  If the breeder is raising their puppies in their home, backyard or on the patio then it's best to get that puppy home and with your stock ASAP.

​But the REAL answer is not to buy from these "Backyard Breeders" in the first place, because even by 8 weeks old you have lost at least 3-4 weeks of vital socialization time with livestock and to be perfectly honest your puppy will never be the same as a puppy who was "raised in a barn". Puppies have critical developmental periods and where your pup spends even the first 8 weeks makes a huge difference in how they turn out. Breeders who raised their LGD puppies like companion dogs either don't understand puppy development or don't care about the impact it has on the future of the dog and the stock it's intended to guard. Ignorance or apathy, it doesn't much matter. Do yourself a favor and just say no to Backyard LGD Breeders.

Comment: "...if they are going to new homes, once they get there they need to spend time in the house to bond with their shepherd, learn how to behave in a house, how to ride in a car, walk on leash, and a whole lot of other things that will make them much better rounded LGD in the long run. 

Reply: I totally agree that LGD puppies need to be exposed to experiences and skills that will make them well-rounded dogs (leash walking, exposure to lots of sights, sounds and people), and these experiences should be started by the breeder during their critical learning period, in the first 12-16 weeks. The more things the puppy is exposed to during this time the more well-rounded and resilient they will be. Again, waiting until the puppy goes to their new home is not going to be as effective as having the breeder do it, because by that point the Critical Socialization Period is ending.

Just simply housing the puppies in a stall in the barn (or on a patio or in a house or yard) with no mental stimulation is not good enough. The puppy will be mentally and emotionally stunted and may suffer from all kinds of problems as adults, including aggression and fear, both of which are unsuitable in a LGD. If you instead buy a puppy from a breeder who uses a comprehensive puppy socialization plan like Puppy Culture, in addition to an intensive livestock socialization plan, your puppy will be well-prepared for its future as a LGD and as a well-rounded, stable dog and part of your family. 

Debunking "The Shepherd Way" Myth

Spend any time on LGD groups on Facebook and you'll likely encounter the "Shepherd Way of LGD Training" method. This ridiculous theory is heavily promoted on social media by self-described "experts" with no actual training or experience with LGD's. (What professional dog training or behavior courses have they taken? What scientific documents or books have they read? What is their experience with dogs in general and LGD's in particular? Are they a breeder or trainer of LGD's? If they are a breeder how long have they bred LGD's and how many puppies have they successfully placed in working homes?)

These "experts" make the claim that shepherds spent hours a day intensively interacting with and training their LGD's and overseeing their interactions with the flocks. So Livestock Guardian Dogs are independent natured because they historically spent so much time alone with the stock but they also spent every waking minute with the "shepherd"?! That is what we call and oxymoron. 

Maybe these people are confusing herding dogs with LGD's but if there's evidence for this "Shepherd Way Theory" I haven't found it. And that idea is refuted in this National Geographic video on Maremmas, where the "shepherd" clearly states that the dogs, for the most part, take the sheep out all day long, by themselves, and then watch them all night, by themselves. The shepherds mainly see them in the morning before the animals go out to pasture and when the dogs bring the sheep back in for the night. No snuggling on the couch in front of the TV for these dogs. The point of LGD's is that they can and do work largely independently. (This video, by the way, was made by the uncle of the breeder of Pegaso, our imported Italian dog.)

Even if ancient Shepherds did spend hours a day interacting with and supervising their dogs those shepherds and dogs lived out on the open range with the sheep. They didn't live in warm, cozy houses with cable TV and internet. You can't take an old world, ancient way of managing LGD's and just plunk it down in our modern world and expect the results to be the same. Sitting on the couch watching TV with your LGD puppy for hours a day and then taking them out to do the farm chores for 30 minutes to and hour, or even a couple of hours, is not going to be enough to train that puppy how to be a Livestock Guardian Dog. You are training it to be a companion dog. Which is fine if you want a companion dog, but not if you need a LGD.

Yes there are adaptations and compromises that have to be made in order to keep a puppy safe while also ensuring the proper early socialization with stock, but if someone wants to be the "shepherd" to their LGD puppy the answer is NOT turning the puppy into a couch potato with token "livestock exposure" for an hour or so out of a 24 hour day. The answer is for a safe place to be made for the puppy in the barn or pasture so the puppy can be properly immersed with the livestock and for the "shepherd" to get outside and spend more time with the puppy, in their natural LGD setting. And for the puppy to have a working LGD partner or mentor, (or both) too.

The Best Place to Get Advice is From Real Experts

If you want to hear from an actual expert on Livestock Guardian Dogs you should read some of the books on the subject by Raymond Coppinger, professor emeritus of biology at Hampshire College, and his associates. ​In 1976, Ray and his wife Lorna founded the Livestock Guarding Dog Project at Hampshire College, where he conducted a long-term study of LGD's involving Maremma Sheepdogs as well as other breeds. For ten years the Coppingers compiled data from over 1,400 dogs in research that is still the single largest, long term study of LGDs in the world. They actually started a Maremma Sheepdog registry that predates the MSCA and many Maremmas in the United States are descended from dogs that were imported for the project.

Here's a quote from the Hampshire College website on Coppingers' work: "This long-term investigation into the behavior of a new kind of dog for farmers and ranchers in the United States has resulted in greater understanding of early developmental behavior of dogs, and how early experience (or lack of it) can affect adult behavior."

I don't know about you but I would rather get my LGD advice from real scientists and experts on the subject than from people on social media with no actual credentials, training, education or experience in the field.

Nature Versus Nurture

Comment: "Dogs with good breeding will learn from you modeling the desired behavior, because that’s how they’ve been raised for centuries"

Reply: Another non-science comment. First of all, dogs don't mimic the behavior of humans, or of other species. To a degree they mimic other dogs but even that is minimal. If it weren't then  all I would need to do would be to pair one of my excellent adult LGD's with my puppies and juvenile dogs and the training would be done for me. I wish!

And no matter how much I pet my goats and tell the dogs "nice goat" it doesn't stop the chasing. Dogs don't do what they do to please us or because they love us. They do what their instincts, developmental stages and environments dictate. In order to stop the chasing the environment needs to be matched to their developmental stage (appropriate stock and conditions) and conducive to getting the behavior I want. And they need to be rewarded for the behavior that's desired to encourage more of it.

As far as the assertion that dogs with good breeding will naturally figure things out by curling up on the couch and watching TV, that is pure hogwash, not at all "how they've been raised for centuries" and not scientific at all. Again, in the words of an actual expert:

And I for one prefer science over urban legends. What about you?

**Disclosure - I am the Admin on a Maremma Sheepdog training and discussions Facebook group called Maremma Sheepdog Open Forum so maybe it seems a bit ironic that I am warning people to not get their training advice on Facebook. However our group is science based and run by people with real training and experience with the breed. We do not allow the promoting of unscientific claims or urban legends on our group or anything that harms or endangers dogs. The mission of the group is to make the world a better and safer place for Maremmas, their owners and the livestock they guard through true education and encouragement. My group is the only place on Facebook I recommend for training advice.

**I posted this on Facebook and as usual, got some pushback from people. There were a few comments as well as a long private conversation I had with someone today about the post so I wanted to clarify something that came up. When I refer to “The Shepherd Way” it has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with how real shepherds in Italy managed their dogs or still do. What I am referring to is Americans who cherry pick aspects of what I have been told Italian shepherds did/do without doing the whole thing.

For instance, I was told that Italian shepherds basically have house/barns, where the dogs can come and go freely between the part where the animals live and wher the humans live. I do not know if that's true but if it is that is nothing like what I see advocated on social media because most Americans don't have that kind of set-up. Do YOU have a barn attached to your house?

What’s more I don't think most Americans live anything like the ancient or even modern Italian shepherds did/do. Again, I don't know, but I would guess shepherds did and do spend hours a day outdoors with their dogs and stock. Most Americans spend the majority of their hours indoors, in front of some kind of screen, with very small amounts of time outdoors, even if they have a farm or homestead. And most people with farms have an off farm job. So where is this house puppy while the “shepherd” is at work?

My point is not that the real “shepherd way”, whatever that really is, doesn't work. I have great respect for these real shepherds. I just don't believe that's what is being promoted by most people who advocate this on social media. From my conversations and observations on these groups I only see people telling other people to “bring the puppy inside and be the shepherd” without clarifying or teaching them how to really do that. And that is what I have a problem with. I love real shepherds. Fake ones not so much.

And I also do not have a problem if people want to allow their LGD’s in the house. I still believe they should spend the majority of their time outside with the stock, but I doubt a visit to the house now and then will ruin a well started dog. (An improperly started one is another matter entirely.) I have clients who allow their pups in the house and I support their right to manage their pups as they see fit. My dogs might visit my house if I had a different set up. But my house is 300’ from my barn, with an unfenced area between them. I couldn’t have my dogs come in my house without putting them on a leash and walking them over, and if I did the animals would be unprotected. But if you want to bring your Maremma in your house more power to you!

Once the puppies have gotten steady on their feet and mastered eating puppy mush we begin working on two very important protocols - The Puppy Call and Barrier Challenges. These activities can be combined or done separately.

The Puppy Call

One of the most important things a breeder can teach their pups is the Puppy Call, and it's very easy to do. We simply start feeding the puppies in an area away from where they are sleeping or playing so they have to come to the new area to get their food. Then every time we put the food down we call the puppies to us with a distinctive and ridiculous sounding "puppy, puppy puppy", over and over and over, until all the puppies have arrived. It doesn't take long before the puppies associate the call with food, and they stop everything they are doing and come running. After we have introduced treats and clicker training to the puppies we can also use the call and reward them with treats other than puppy food. We like to use high value treats such as meat balls or baked chicken. The important thing is that it should be VERY rewarding for the puppies to answer that call!

The Puppy Call is the first step to teaching the puppies recall, which everyone seems to struggle with teaching their Maremmas. If the new owner continues to practice the Puppy Call at home they will retain it. It can be a very valuable safety tool if the puppy gets loose. And by gradually adding in their name the "puppy" can be phased out and you have now taught your dog to come when called. That's not to say your older Maremma will always immediately come if they think something else is more interesting, but like everything else, it's easier to teach a puppy this fun game during their critical socialization period than when they are older.

Barrier Challenges

Another important tool we use is Barrier Challenges. We use a variety of "obstacles" that the puppies must navigate to get from point A to point B. Things like pool noodles, different surfaces to walk on, steps up and down into the dog door and the Puppy Parlor door and x-pens make great barrier challenges. Sometimes they simply navigate them of their own accord to get where they want to go and sometimes we use them in conjunction with feeding or treat time to give them extra motivation. Barrier Challenges teach puppies problem solving as well as how to deal with frustration. And a dog that's not easily frustrated is less likely to behave aggressively with people, other dogs or stock.

Here are the pups, coming into the Puppy Parlor from outside, where they are rewarded with meatballs. We also added a barrier challenge in the form of an x-pen fence around the step. You can see that the last couple of puppies got a little frustrated but they kept trying and eventually got around it and got their reward.

This was a very big challenge for the puppies. I had them in the kennel by the Puppy Parlor while my farm employee, Ethan, was raking the pasture. When he was done he released them while I stood by the gate and called them. My son Noah helped me film and feed the puppies when they arrived. (I should have brought a bigger dish of meatballs, or maybe their dinner. It's hard to feed and film and call puppies all at once.) They had only been in this part of the puppy pasture for a few days and this was a lot for them to navigate and figure out. Where was I? Which way should they go? Plus the last couple of puppies were very distracted by Ethan and thought they should stay and play with him. (Usually I'm by myself when I do the Puppy Call and there are no interesting people around.) If I had thought it through I might have done things differently but as it turned out it was a very good challenge for them and they all eventually made it to the gate and the meatballs! Great job, puppies!

I admin a science-based Maremma Facebook group called Maremma Sheepdog Open Forum. One of the main goals of the group is to provide accurate, scientific and up to date information to anyone interested in this wonderful breed. We have had some great posts lately from people seeking to learn more about how to find an ethical breeder to buy Maremmas from, as well as how to choose breeding stock and make wise decisions for those who would like to start their own breeding programs. These are such wonderful questions that I decided that I would start a series of blog posts on the topic, breaking down each area of importance and examining it further. 

There are so many considerations when choosing a breeder: temperament and working ability (number one in my book), the health and soundness of the breeding stock, pedigrees, conformation, DNA testing, COI's, how the parent dogs are utilized by the breeder, (Are they true working dogs or just pretty lawn ornaments?), how the puppies are socialized both with stock and with people and in other ways. Puppies locked in a barn and barely handled are really no better than pampered pups raised by a pool as "estate guardians" with no stock exposure. Both are being deprived of what they need to grow into great LGD's. I can't cover all the things to look for in one post so I will start with one of the most important, in my book, the importance of sound hips in breeding dogs.

When I first began building my program I knew nothing about health testing and definitely knew little about Hip Dysplasia. I had previously bred small dogs and hadn't really owned many large breeds. I googled "health problems of Maremmas" and couldn't find much. I knew that Hip Dysplasia was a problem in many large breeds so I asked other Maremma owners and breeders about it and was mostly told "Maremmas don't get Hip Dysplasia". I was also told that Maremmas can be sensitive to anesthesia and this seemed to be a common reason some people gave for not doing radiographs on their breeding dogs. It definitely scared me. Who wants to send their dog for an elective procedure and risk losing it? What I later learned is that the first part is absolutely not true and is usually told by people who don't test their dogs because of financial reasons. And as for the risk of anesthesia I learned it's really very minimal. And after watching my own veterinarian perform procedures on several of my dogs under anesthesia I'm no more worried about anesthesia than I would be about any other risk.

My first Maremmas were unregistered so no one did hip testing on them. But when I decided to start breeding registered dogs I contacted a lot of MSCA breeders, looking for suitable dogs. I was surprised at the disparity I found. There were the breeders that did no hip testing at all. They told me things like "I've had these lines for years and none of the dogs have had hip dysplasia." Or the "Maremmas don't get HD" line. I almost fell for it but I decided if I was going to go to the expense of buying expensive breeding stock I needed more reassurance than that.

I bought only dogs from parents who had passing hip scores according to the MSCA. All were Code of Ethics breeders, but getting the hip testing info was a little tricky, and understanding it was even trickier. But I trusted that if they were a COE breeder they were breeding the best dogs possible and making all the right decisions. What I later learned was that some breeders use the Code of Ethics more as a marketing tool than anything else. The COE says that dogs should have at least a fair OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) score or a PennHip score of 0.51 or lower to breed. So some breeders aim for the lowest passing score. As long as it passes they will breed it. That can be disastrous. What I didn't know until later is that while "fair" is passing you shouldn't breed a fair to a fair, or you have a higher chance of passing on hip dysplasia. And that a 0.51 PennHip score is really too high. The breed average is 0.42, so why does the Code of Ethics accept much higher scores? That's not a question I can answer but personally I want to breed better than average dogs. 

Another thing that took me a really long time to learn and that was very shocking, is that some Code of Ethics breeders will breed a dog based on preliminary OFA scores. There are two ways you can score a dog's hips: PennHip or OFA. PennHip can only be done by specially trained vets with very expensive equipment. It costs a lot more to do than OFA ($600-700 the last time I had it done, about 2 years ago.) and the dog must be anesthetized to do it, but the results are accurate as early as 16 weeks.

For OFA rads the dog doesn't have to be anesthetized (though a good vet will insist on it) and it's much, much cheaper to do ($150-300 in my area) and any vet can do it. The drawbacks are that the interpretation is very subjective (the opinion of 3 vets, rather than the precise measurements of PennHip) and that you can't get a final score until the dog is 2 years old. That's a long time to wait to see if your dog will pass or fail. But most ethical breeders will do just that. They will wait. Sadly not all breeders are ethical. 

With OFA you can test as early as 16 weeks, just like PennHip. The difference is that with OFA that's only considered a preliminary score. Why? Because the score often changes with age with OFA, and usually not for the better. I have heard a fellow Code of Ethics breeder lament that their dog had an "excellent" preliminary score but later was downgraded to fair. But this very same  breeder routinely breeds dogs that are under 2 years old, based on their preliminary OFA scores. Their reasoning is that the COE doesn't say it has to be a final score, so they are within compliance. But just aiming for compliance wise, or ethical? What if they breed the dog and later it scores poorly? You could now have hip dysplasia  in the gene pool and there's nothing you can do about it.

This breeder could get a PennHip exam on their dogs and know for sure but they feel that it's "too expensive". They could wait until the dogs are 2 years old and have had their final OFA exams done, but they feel that's "unfair" for them to wait. So they take a calculated risk with their breeding program. Which is their right to do. But let the buyer beware! If you buy from such a breeder it is YOU who are taking the risk! And I, for one, am not willing to take that risk, now that I fully understand it.

Luckily all my dogs passed their PennHip exams and received excellent scores, but it was pins and needles waiting for the results. But I was not so lucky. I know of people who have bought dogs under such conditions who not only didn't pass but who acquired hip dysplasia. The saddest case I have heard was a sweet dog named Marco, who was diagnosed with bilateral Hip Dysplasia at under a year old. This dog was bought for breeding and the buyer paid extra for breeding rights. The breeder offered the buyer no compensation at all. Not even the extra that was paid for breeding rights. The buyer had to purchase a new stud dog and Marco had to be neutered. He can't even work a full day as a LGD. He will live the rest of his life on expensive pain meds and joint supplements. So much for the "Maremmas don't get Hip Dysplasia" line. Tell that to Marco's owner.

Now I'm not saying that Marco's breeder purposely did anything unethical, and sometimes no matter how hard you try bad things happen. But I am saying that there most definitely is hip dysplasia in the breed, and the best way to prevent it is for breeders to make ethical breeding decisions and for buyers to do their research and ask lots of questions. And if you don't like the answers find another breeder! 

Another sign of commitment in a breeder is whether they have requirements the owners and the dogs they sell must meet in order to get obtain breeding rights. Some breeders only require the buyer to pay more money and breeding rights are given, without knowing whether the dogs will pass or fail their testing, and with no plan for what will happen if they don't. (Or testing isn't required.) Other breeders either require hip testing to be done by the new owner in order to obtain breeding rights, or they do it themselves before the puppy is picked up, for an additional fee to cover the cost of the test. If the dog doesn't pass they aren't bred. We considered doing the PennHip on breeding candidates we sell but have chosen to have the new owners do it, so that they are showing a financial and ethical commitment before they can breed. All puppies leave here in Limited Registration, which is only changed to full if and when all the requirements of the contract are met, number one being a passing hip score not only for the dog purchased from us, but for any intended mate. And we never charge extra for breeding rights. Breeding rights are earned by the puppy and the owner, not bought.

Below are two radiographs of hip x-rays of Maremmas. One is of a dog with an impressive PennHip score. The other is of a nine month old female dog who was imported for breeding purposes but who failed her testing terribly. Even if you know nothing about judging radiographs its easy to see the difference. Which dog do you want in your breeding program? Or even just guarding your stock. Being a LGD is hard work. Hip Dysplasia isn't just painful. It can prevent a dog from doing the job it was bought to do. So if you think it only matters for breeding dogs think again. Marco's owner would beg to differ. She didn't just lose a breeding dog. She lost part of her work force. She loves Marco and wouldn't trade him for the world, but she will have to watch him deal with the effects of a disease that might have been prevented if different choices had been made. A disease that could be greatly reduced if breeders act in a truly ethical manner.

Above are photos of the rads on a 9 month old female dog that was imported for breeding, who failed her hip testing, and an 18 week old female puppy who has an incredible score of R 0.15 and L 0.14. I know which dog I would choose!

Below the scores of my current MSCA registered breeding dogs. This is what everyone should look for in a breeding dog. Embark testing, COI's - all that stuff is great, but no hips, no LGD's. Let's start with what really matters.

The Transitional Period begins when the eyes start to open and end when the puppies startle at sudden sights our sounds. On "average" this period is from 2-3 weeks, but this varies by breed and by puppy. We have found Maremmas to be a precocious breed with some puppies' eyes beginning to open as early as 7 or 8 days old. Therefore we find that our puppies enter and exit the Transitional Period well before they ever hit 3 weeks old. So basically don't blink or you will miss it!

Maremma puppies also begin walking around a week or so old. True to their breed they are practically born barking. ☺️ 

Twelve day old "toddlers" learning to walk. It's vitally important that puppies have soft bedding in the whelping box. This serves to keep them warm and dry, as well as to give them "traction" when they start walking. Puppies raised on improper footing can develop joint problems.

As soon as puppies enter the Transitional Period we discontinue ENS and ESI and begin Enrichment. The puppies are introduced to at least one new item or experience each day. This includes tactile items like toys and different kinds of footing. (Rugs, rubber mats, fleece, etc.) and interesting household items they can look at and explore.