Six months of hard work finally paid off the week of April 9-13, 2024, when I attended the Karen Pryor Academy Dog Trainer Professional program. I have officially completed this very rigorous professional dog training program! I learned so much throughout the six-month program and even more during the five-day workshop. 

I sometimes get contacted by people needing help with their "aggressive" Livestock Guardian Dog. First I want to say that I do not like labeling any dog as "aggressive", even if they are behaving in what may appear to be an aggressive, fearful or reactive manner. Labelling a dog as "aggressive" gives the connotation that there is something wrong with the dog itself, and that it can't be fixed and this is simply not true in most cases. Aggression in dogs is a very complex issue in dogs with a LOT of causes but there are a lot of things that can be done to help.

This is a guest post by one of my Maremma clients, Violet Qu. Violet owns Cotton Candy (CC), a puppy from my May 2022 Sevro x Polar litter. Violet also owns a Great Pyrenese named Marshmallow. Violet took the Karen Pryor Academy Dog Trainer Foundations course before bringing CC home. She has been extremely succesful in training CC and a lot of the reason why is the excellent knowledge and skills the course gave her. I asked Violet if she would write a "review" of the course for my email newsletter and she did such an excellent job that I invited her to do a guest post on the blog. Enjoy!

A Tale of Two White Dogs, by Violet Qu

The big dog on the left is Marshmallow. He came to me as an 8-week-old fluff ball, with a mission to keep my chickens and barn cats from being picked off by the big bad wolves. He was my first dog. I didn’t know what I was doing. I watched a lot of Zak George videos and took a puppy training class over zoom (it was during Covid lockdown) where I learned to manipulate his body by using a lure. For the most part, things worked fine. Marshmallow learned to sit, lie down, stand up, shake, crawl, and so on. He even learned to fetch, which is somewhat unusual for a Great Pyrenees. But sometimes, when I asked him to do something, he would suddenly have this unbearable itch that he had to scratch, and then he would yawn, and then he would give a sideways glance at the ground before performing the task in slo-mo. I coined it “emergency itch” and sometimes asked with a sarcastic tone “really? must you right now?” For months, he was mouthy and I just ignored it. Everything I read said it would stop if I just kept ignoring it.


At the age of 1, Marshmallow’s guarding instincts kicked in in full force. He ran around the ranch barking and chasing coyotes at night, and often looked exhausted in the morning. However, the mouthiness remained. And he was also chewing just about everything I didn’t want him to chew on. Even though Marshmallow was doing all he could to guard my small ranch, I still had 2 chickens disappear without a trace and a barn cat mauled by what I could only imagine a coyote (the kitty fully recovered after veterinary intervention). The coyotes did not fear him. They kicked dirt at him from the other side of the fence. It was clear to me that Marshmallow needed a partner.


A few months later, Cotton Candy joined the family as a 3-month-old from the Prancing Pony Farm, where she had already learned many life skills as a livestock guardian dog. 


In preparation of CC’s arrival, I took the Dog Trainer Foundations online course from the Karen Pryor Academy. It turned out to be more helpful than I expected. Throughout Marshmallow’s puppyhood, I had been ransacking the internet for positive reinforcement dog training tips. But tips are exactly that: a melange of “do x” instructions. The DTF course provided me with the structure I needed to internalize the positive reinforcement training concept. I am not known for following instructions. So if a training tip says step 1: wait for behavior, step 2: click, step 3: treat, I’ll more than likely mess up the timing or order or skip a step. But if I understand the building blocks to positive reinforcement training, then I can “derive” my own instructions time and time again and always get it right. Other than the science and mechanics, I also found the chapter on understanding dog language really helpful. Marshmallow’s “emergency itch”? That’s stress. His yawning? That’s stress. Mouthiness? Yup, still stress. That poor pup! The whole time he’s been gently telling me that he could use a bit more support, and I’ve been an idiot trying to wait it all out. What also dawned on me, is that a lot of what I thought / was labeled positive reinforcement, wasn’t reinforcement at all. Dangling a piece of bacon to get a dog to sit is bribery, or non-contact coercion, if you will.


Now back to CC. She has received positive reinforcement training at Kim’s since the day she was born. By the time she arrived on my ranch, she knew how to mand and target really well. And that gave me plenty of opportunities to reinforce her and quickly build a trusting relationship. Eventually I taught her to shake, only because she looks incredibly cute doing that. But by golly she was so polite and never pawed me for attention like Marshmallow did when he was a pup. She knew that manding gets her attention and treats, and giving me her paw only when I ask gets her praise and treats. I haven’t intentionally taught her to come, but she figured it out because every time she comes to me she gets pets and she might even get to lick my face. She has a pretty good “go to bed” from a single training moment. It was her birthday and I had a serrano ham bone for her. I wanted to let her have it in the kennel without being bothered by Marshmallow. I walked towards the dog bed once we entered the kennel and she hopped on it. On the spur of the moment, I clicked, then gave her the ham bone. I later put it on cue, but really, the “go to bed” action was learned in just 1 event. 


She’s been here about a year now, and CC has never had an “emergency itch”. Now isn’t that interesting! More interestingly, Marshmallow’s “emergency itch” and chewing all but disappeared after CC’s arrival, which roughly coincided with the beginning of proper use of positive reinforcement on my end. Was it me? Was it CC? Only Marshmallow knows. What I do know is that with 2 happy relaxed dogs, my life has gotten easier. And we’ll just end the story here and live happily ever after.

So when one of my puppy owners or anyone else comes to me with a training issue with their dog, the very first thing I recommend is that they take the KPA Foundations course. Of course, if this is one of my puppy clients, I suggest they take the course before bringing their puppy home. Unfortunately, only some of them do. Whether it's the money or the time it takes or that they don't see the value in it, I don't know. 

I have considered requiring prospective puppy buyers to complete the course before they can buy a puppy from me, but someone has to want to learn this information for it to be effective, and unfortunately, not enough people understand the value of this program to them and their dogs.

I do require my breeding candidate owners to complete the course before they can get breeding rights on their puppies, and I am firm on this requirement. If you are a breeder, you are also a trainer, and this program is step one to being a successful trainer of little Livestock Guardian Dog puppies. Unfortunately, most people who take the course to get breeding rights choose to wait until their dogs are of breeding age to do so. Better late than never, but it's sad that neither the dog they bought from me nor the owner themselves benefitted from the program when their puppy was little. 

Of all the puppies I have sold over the years, the owners who have been the most successful and had the fewest problems training their pups are the ones that have taken the KPA Foundations Course. The puppies who have benefitted the most from an owner who truly understands their dog and how to communicate and train in a kind, fun, science-based way are the puppies whose owners have taken the Foundations course. This course truly is Step One in your success as an LGD owner. 

A Livestock Guardian Dog is a huge investement. The safety and security of whatever you value are riding on that dog, be that goats, chickens, horses, or the family cat. (This course is just as vital for companion Maremmas.) Livestock Guardian Dogs have a high failure rate, and that is because most people are ill-equipped to train their dogs. The Karen Pryor Acedemy Dog Trainer Foundations course gives you the vital first step towards success with your dog.

​Think of it as insurance on your investment. Most people wouldn't forego insurance on a new car. That would be too risky. Don't skip on insurance for your LGD! Take the KPA Foundations course before you bring home your new Maremma puppy. Or if you've already got that adorable pup, start the course now. Your dog will thank you for it, and you will thank me for this advice!

1) Does the Maremma Sheepdog breeder focus on selling "affordable" dogs?
Here's where we answer the burning question, "How much does a Maremma Sheepdog cost?" The answer is it depends on what the buyer and the breeder value. There are breeders out there, even Code of Ethics breeders, who emphasize providing "affordable" dogs to people. They claim that farmers can't afford expensive dogs, and maybe in some cases, that's true, but in reality, what someone can or can't "afford" has more to do with what they value than how much they make. 

We all have things we spend money on that others think are frivolous. And in an age when a "Doodle" or your average lap dog is $3000-5000, I don't believe that high quality, well-socialized registered Maremma puppies out of proven working, health-tested parents that will grow up to be responsible for the very lives of the farmer's other animals aren't worth at least as much as these fancy pet dogs. 

I have no problem with doodles or lap dogs. I am highlighting the disparity in our thinking when such dogs are seen as more valuable than well-bred working dogs that will fulfill a crucial role. As breeders, let's aim higher. We are ethically responsible for raising the bar for the breed we claim to love. 

The push for "affordable" registered Maremmas primarily comes from lazy, irresponsible, and apathetic breeders. Breeding and properly starting quality working Maremma puppies takes a lot of money and a lot of hard work. The cost of puppy food alone, as well as food for the parents, is out of this world. Then there's health testing for the parents before you even breed them. There are vet bills, vaccines, external and internal parasite prevention, microchips, grooming expenses, and other supplies. It adds up so fast!

And caring for and raising puppies, while very rewarding, is a lot of work. Puppies and parents need to be fed and groomed. Pups must be dewormed, vaccinated, weighed, cleaned, and sometimes bottle-fed if the litter is large. The whelping box must be changed daily, which means lots of laundry. And once mom stops cleaning up the puppy poop, guess whose job it is?! Puppies must be socialized with livestock while keeping safe from hooves, beaks, extreme temperatures, and bad weather. They also need to be socialized with humans and encounter as many novel experiences as possible so that they mature into safe, stable, resilient dogs instead of feral creatures.

So how does a breeder produce "affordable" pups while doing all of the above? They don't. Instead, they cut corners and make compromises. Health testing? Too expensive! We'll skip that, and if the puppy ends up with Hip Dysplasia, we'll blame the owner. We weren't planning to give a health guarantee, anyway. 

Quality dog food? No, we'll buy one of those cheap, inferior brands instead. And make sure not to "overfeed" the pups or mom. A cozy whelping box with interchangeable pads that we'll need to change and wash daily? More work. How about a bare kiddie pool in a cold garage? No blanket is necessary. Just hose it out as needed. Never mind that the slick plastic is not only cold but could do lasting damage to the puppies' joints. Efficiency is what matters. 

Or whelp the puppies in the barn, no matter the time of year. Throw a little hay in a corner of the sheep or goat pen. Half the pups die of exposure or heat stroke or are stepped on by livestock, but that's an "acceptable" loss for breeders who prioritize "affordable" over other things. 

Toys, treats, and enrichment activities? More expensive and requires more work. We'll skip all that in the name of "not making pets out of the pups ."Yep, that sounds like a good excuse for neglect. 

Are we socializing puppies with livestock? That's too much work for the profit-driven, irresponsible breeder. It would be easier to keep them locked in the garage, patio, small kennel, or a stall in the barn. But minimal effort and work are what matters. We're just warehousing them until they are weaned and ready to go home. And ASAP!

And that is how you raise "affordable" pups! Granted, not every breeder of "affordable" puppies cuts every corner mentioned. But they all cut some of them and others not listed. They all make sacrifices to produce pups with minimal effort and expense. And the puppies, their future owners, and the livestock they are supposed to protect all too often pay the price. And the breed as a whole pays the price since these breeders perpetuate practices that aren't in the breed's best interest.

If "affordable pups" matters most to you, you shouldn't have too much trouble finding that. But if high-quality, well-bred, correctly socialized, and healthy pups are what you're looking for, then read on to learn to read between the lines and pick the right breeder. 

2) Does the Maremma Sheepdog breeder have a Breeding Program, or do they breed dogs? And if they do have a Breeding Program, is their program in line with your needs and values?
There is a very distinct and essential difference between "breeding dogs" and having a breeding program. Someone who "breeds dogs" is usually in it strictly for the money and is not committed to doing everything they can to best serve their dogs, clients, or breed. A "Breeding Program" is carefully thought out with specific goals and carried out intentionally to achieve those goals. These goals may or may not align with what you are looking for but understanding the difference and learning about the breeder's "program" as a whole, instead of just about their available puppies, will help you decide if they are the breeder for you. Not every breeder is suitable for every potential puppy owner. Understanding the breeder's goals and values and how they align with yours is the most critical step in choosing a breeder.

3) Does the Maremma Sheepdog breeder have any expertise, training, and experience in their field? 
How long has the breeder been breeding Maremmas? Have they bred any other breeds? Has the breeder taken any professional courses like dog training, behavior, or puppy socialization courses? Have they worked in dog-related professions, such as dog grooming or veterinary medicine? Do they run a working farm or ranch raising one or more livestock species or only have a few pet animals? Or do they even have any livestock at all? (A breeder with no livestock should not be breeding working LGDs. Puppies have critical socialization windows in the first weeks and must be exposed to livestock before this window closes.) Everyone has to start somewhere, but the more experience a breeder has as a dog breeder, livestock producer, or in another capacity working with animals in general and dogs in particular (especially Livestock Guardian Dogs), the better. After all, a breeder needs to be able to support their puppy owners as they raise and train their pups. A breeder can only help people with enough education and experience to draw from.

4) Does the Maremma Sheepdog breeder have a website, and if so, is it relevant and up to date? 
Ok, this might seem like a strange question but hear me out. Very few reputable businesses these days operate without a website. A website is the most crucial marketing tool for any business owner and the people the business serves. According to Forbes.com, "every business needs a website". A well-built and up-to-date website builds credibility, showcases a company's brand (who they are and what they stand for), streamlines customer service, and so much more. A breeder who can't be bothered to build a website is not very committed to their dogs or clients. They are likely "just breeding dogs," not running a well-thought-out and intentional breeding program. 

And if they have a website but you still need help finding information on available puppies, photos, pedigrees, and health test results of the parents, you are unlikely to receive good customer service before or after the sale. It may be just me, but having a relevant and up-to-date website separates professionals from amateurs in any field. 

5) Does the Maremma Sheepdog breeder have a good social media following?
A breeder's website is always first and foremost in building credibility but being active on social media also shows their commitment to educating and supporting their clients and anyone interested in the breed. Businesses engage their customers and like-minded individuals on many social media platforms. Breeders are busy doing the work it takes to run their businesses, raise quality dogs, and meet the needs of their clients, so expecting them to be active on every social media platform is unreasonable. But if they have business accounts on one or two platforms, such as Facebook and Instagram, and they are reasonably active there, as well as some breed or species-relevant groups, then checking out their posts can give you a feel for who they are, what they stand for and how much credibility they have with their audience. Their audience should include clients who have bought puppies from them. If a breeder gets little to no client engagement, that's a red flag.

6) Does the Maremma Sheepdog breeder use their website and social media platforms to educate, encourage and inspire others interested in the breed?
Time is always at a premium when breeding dogs and running a farm. Still, most passionate and dedicated breeders will find time to reach out to others. A reputable Maremma Sheepdog breeder cares about more than just selling puppies. They are advocates for the breed and the people who love these dogs as much as they do. They write blog posts and website pages to help others with their dogs, no matter where they acquired them. They share links to products they find helpful on their website. They post fun and educational content on their own and from other sources on their social media accounts. They always think about how something they could share might bless Maremmas and their owners and make time to do so whenever possible.  

7) Does the Maremma Sheepdog breeder use their dogs to actively guard livestock?
This one is crucial. You would be surprised how many people decide to breed Livestock Guardian Dogs but don't use their dogs as Livestock Guardians. This practice has been popular with breeds like Great Pyrenees for years, where they are often bred exclusively for the show or pet market. One of the reasons Maremmas are such great Livestock Guardian Dogs is that they have yet to be overbred for the pet/show market. Therefore they retain more of their working instinct. However, some disreputable breeders are attracted to the "rarity" of the Maremma Sheepdog breed and breed solely for profit and "bragging rights ."Usually, they have a "farm." but it's more of a fancy estate in a "horsey subdivision" than an actual working farm or homestead. At most, they may own a few chickens, a horse, a mini cow, or some pet sheep.

Photos of their dogs and puppies with livestock will be very sparse if there are any at all. This lack of photos isn't because they are too busy to take pictures. It's because their dogs and puppies don't live with the livestock but are pets who spend most of their time lounging around the pool or sleeping on the patio. Their dogs may be beautiful, well-bred, and health tested, but they aren't Livestock Guardians. They may deter predators by their mere presence. Still, a Livestock Guardian Dog that doesn't live WITH livestock is an Estate Guardian, not an LGD. 

And if the dogs don't live with the stock, you should ask yourself and the breeder two crucial questions. Why don't the dogs live with the livestock? (Probably because they aren't trustworthy with stock.) And how can dogs who don't live with livestock train their puppies to be Livestock Guardian Dogs? 

And bonus question - how can a breeder who doesn't know how to train their adult dogs to live safely with livestock possibly train their puppies to do so?

I once had a breeder tell me that most of her puppies go to fancy estates to "keep coyotes from pooping on the lawns" and to "guard trees" in wealthy people's orchards. Based on what I observed, that is how she uses her dogs. That might be ok if these breeders limited themselves to selling puppies only to people who need to use their dogs how they do. But they don't. They also sell pups to unsuspecting real farmers who need a dog who will be safe and reliable with delicate stock like goats and chickens. And when that proud new puppy owner brings home one of these "estate guardian" puppies, they may find that turning that puppy into a safe, reliable Livestock Guardian Dog is challenging, if not downright impossible. 

If you need a beautiful dog to guard your swimming pool, buy from one of these "estate guardian" breeders. But if you need your dog to protect your chickens and goats instead of eating them, I advise you to keep looking. Otherwise, you may eventually need to replace your dog and some of your livestock.

8) Does the Maremma Sheepdog breeder have proven working genetics in their program and a way to track their dogs? Is this information readily accessible to potential buyers?
This is where a website is invaluable in helping potential buyers do their research. Ideally, you will see a page for each breeding dog on the breeder's website, with registered names listed and photos, pedigrees, and health testing information. Then you should see litter pages with the parents listed, links to their pages, and pictures and information on the puppies. 

I'd want as much information about the breeder's program as possible. How they socialize and care for their puppies, what kind of livestock their dogs guard, their sales and visitor policies, their training style, information on shipping, testimonials from clients, and more. 

And most important of all - you should see lots and lots of photos and videos of the parent dogs and the puppies living with livestock. A breeder with little to no photos of their dogs and puppies with stock is a huge red flag. Everyone has a camera in their pocket these days. It's built into their phone. There's no excuse for any breeder not to have photographic evidence that their dogs and puppies live with livestock unless they don't.

You may be new to all this, and it may be overwhelming, but having the information readily available on a website is much better than getting a disorganized breeder to text or email all of this information to you. A conscientious breeder will happily answer your questions and share whatever information you need to decide whether their breeding program is for you. 

If they don't have a website, they should be prompt in providing the information and documents you need. If the breeder is reluctant to answer questions or if getting documents like pedigrees and health test results is difficult, then they are probably not trustworthy.

9) Does the Maremma Sheepdog breeder provide any Health Testing for their breeding dogs?
This one is a major red flag if the answer is no. Genetic defects can be devastating in any dog, especially in working Livestock Guardian Dogs. Without a doubt, the most common and most problematic is Hip Dysplasia. Maremmas are considered a giant breed, and giant breeds are more at risk for hip dysplasia because of their size and rapid growth rate. Livestock Guardian Dogs are hardworking dogs who often patrol rough terrain and must be ready to act immediately. A dog suffering from arthritis caused by Hip Dysplasia can't effectively do their jobs. This condition causes debilitating pain for the dog and puts the livestock at risk. 

Many factors contribute to Hip Dysplasia, including diet and exercise while the puppy grows, as well as injuries and other factors that cause stress on the joints. Even parents with excellent hips can produce puppies with hip dysplasia. Screening of the parents is not a guarantee your puppy won't have problems but it is the first and most crucial step in minimizing risk. All breeding stock should be screened  through either PennHip or OFA and only dogs with scores that are above average for the breed should be bred. If you know more about the other dogs in the pedigree or related dogs and they score well overall, that's even better. Knowledge is power, truly.

What's not ok is a breeder not testing their breeding dogs and simply telling you their dogs "have good hips ."You can only know for sure with the proper diagnostic tests, and if a breeder tells you this, they are lying. Most likely, they have bad hips in their line and don't want to admit it, or they don't want to spend the money and care more about profits than breeding healthy dogs. 

You may think you can save money by buying these cheaper dogs, but it could be costly in the long run. The costs of vet bills, pain medications, and expensive surgeries will far outweigh any savings you may have made on buying an "affordable puppy ."Your dog could become so debilitated that it can't work, necessitating the purchase of a replacement dog or putting your livestock at risk. And sadly, some dogs are so crippled by this horrible condition that they must be put down, which is a heartbreaking and devastating experience. 

Do you want to be the one to watch your puppy suffer in pain from crippling arthritis before she's even grown? Do you want to have to put that poor, sweet dog down to spare her a lifetime of agony? It happens more than you think because greedy, unethical breeders value profits over what's best for the dogs, their potential owners, and the breed as a whole. So do yourself a favor and don't buy potential heartache. And do the right thing for the breed and everyone else who loves and depends on these dogs by not enabling these disreputable breeders.

Other health tests are helpful in making breeding decisions, such as testing for elbow dysplasia and DNA screenings. A breeder doing these tests is a bonus, but beware of a sneaky trend. Many breeders do only DNA testing but no screening for Hip Dysplasia whatsoever. The reason for this is pure deception. A DNA test is under $200 and it takes a minute to swab the dog's cheek. A screening for Hip Dysplasia, through OFA or PennHip, costs on average $400-1000 and requires a trip to the vet (sometimes a specialist). 

Disreputable breeders will do the DNA test and advertise their dogs as "health tested" when they have not tested for the most critical condition a Livestock Guardian Dog is at risk for and the one most likely to affect its ability to do its job. I would not trust such a shady breeder who would use this premeditated and shameful deception.

10) Does the Maremma Sheepdog breeder offer a 2-year health guarantee?
Hand in hand with health testing, a sign of a reputable breeder is a Health Guarantee, preferably covering the first two years of the puppy's life. Shockingly the MSCA Code of Ethics doesn't require breeders to provide a Health Guarantee of any kind. It only requires a contract, and there are no guidelines on what should be included. 

I didn't realize this when I first purchased my breeding dogs, nor did I understand the importance of a health guarantee. I bought dogs from 5 different Code of Ethics breeders, and only two provided health guarantees. I was fortunate that none of my dogs had any health issues. 

Still, I know of people who bought dogs from such breeders and were not so lucky when their dogs were diagnosed with severe Hip Dysplasia at an early age, even under a year old. I've heard similar stories with other breeds. When the owners returned to these breeders seeking help, the breeders accused the owners of causing the problem (despite veterinary evidence) and refused to give any compensation. The buyers had no recourse. They were left with a debilitated dog in constant pain that couldn't do their jobs and ongoing vet bills. And no protection for their stock. 

Of course, by the time the problem was discovered, they loved their dogs too much to give them up, so they had to purchase another dog to guard their livestock while also paying expensive vet bills to try to help the dog, who is now basically a companion dog. So much for saving money on "affordable" puppies. The price of an "affordable" dog is very high, indeed.

Now that I know better, I would only buy a puppy with a 2-year health guarantee again and with a complete understanding of the warranty terms. You might save some money by purchasing an "affordable" puppy, but it could cost you more money and much heartache in the long run. A 2 year health guarantee is there to protect the buyer if, despite all the breeder's efforts to prevent it, health problems do occur. Think of the health guarantee as insurance. You hope you'll never need it, but you sure want it to be there if you do.

Breeding Livestock Guardian dogs is expensive. Dog food alone is a considerable expense. Breeders who sell puppies cheaply must cut corners to make ends meet. Even some Code of Ethics breeders prioritize "affordable" dogs over essential things like health guarantees. It's the buyer who loses every time. And the puppies.

11) Does the Maremma Sheepdog breeder offer a contract?
A contract protects both the buyer and the breeder, and most of all, the puppy. All reputable breeders should provide a written contract with clearly laid out terms. The breeder and the buyer should sign the contract before the puppy goes to its new home. 

Ideally, the breeder has a sample of their contract posted on their website so that the buyer can read it before reserving their puppy. Then the contract is updated with all the puppy and buyer's info before signing. The Code of Ethics has no contract standard, and non-COE breeders aren't even required to use a contract. 

Based on the dogs I bought from other breeders, I have seen everything from over-the-top ridiculous contracts with threats and "thou shall not"s to equally ridiculously vague and incoherent ones. I try hard to make my contract fair and straightforward, protecting the buyer, myself as a breeder, and the puppy. I regularly evaluate my contract and rewrite it if I need to. 

12) Does the Maremma Sheepdog breeder socialize their puppies with livestock from a very early age?
I have entire blog posts written about this topic, which I feel very strongly about. I won't go in-depth about the subject, other than to say if the breeder doesn't have their puppies near livestock by at least three weeks (preferably sooner) and living full time with at least a few gentle goats or sheep and maybe some chickens by a minimum of 5 weeks old then that puppy will never live up to their full potential as Livestock Guardian Dogs. 

Puppies have critical socialization periods in the first weeks. They must encounter what you want them to be comfortable with to get the most benefit from these periods. And for Livestock Guardian Dogs, socialization with livestock during this time is crucial. If puppies are deprived of livestock past about eight weeks of age, they will be adversely affected for life. For more information on this topic, please read the following pages and posts:

• The Prancing Pony Farm Difference - How We Raise and Train Our Maremma Sheepdog Puppies
• How to Bond Your New LGD Puppy to Your Livestock and the Importance of Early Socialization with Livestock in LGD Puppies
• Will my LGD's Behavior with Livestock Improve? What are Critical Learning Periods in Puppies, Why Do They Matter, and What Should you do if You've Missed Them?
• Debunking the "Shepherd Way" Myth of Training Livestock Guardian Dogs - Science Versus Social Media Gurus
• How to Raise and Train Outstanding Livestock Guardian Dogs - How We Integrate Our Maremma Puppies into Our Dairy Goat Herd 
• Our "Puppy Parlor," Our Maremma Sheepdog Whelping and Training Facility
• The Perfect Place to Rear and Train Livestock Guardian Dogs - Our Puppy Parlor Gets Some Upgrades, Plus a Little Backstory on Why and How We Built It.

13) What is the breeder's socialization and training program for the puppies beyond livestock training?
Socialization with livestock is only part of what is needed to turn puppies into successful, well-rounded LGDs. Puppies also need positive interactions with humans, including children, during their early weeks and exposure to various sights, sounds, and experiences. Puppies deprived of these experiences can become fearful or even aggressive dogs that are difficult to manage and dangerous to handle.

Likewise, puppies should be trained with only positive and humane training methods. In their position statement on humane dog training, The American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior (AVSAB) states, "Evidence supports the use of reward based methods for all canine training. AVSAB promotes interactions with animals based on compassion, respect, and scientific evidence. Based on these factors, reward-based learning offers the most advantages and least harm to the learner’s welfare. Research supports the efficacy of reward-based training to address unwanted and challenging behaviors. There is no evidence that aversive training is necessary for dog training or behavior modification."

Experts agree and science has proven that dogs learn best through positive reinforcement. Aversive training methods reduce learning and can adversely affect the dog's trust in humans. Breeders who rely on force, punishment, and control to manage their puppies or who advocate that their puppy owners do so could be causing irreparable harm to the dogs.

14) Does the breeder provide lifetime support for the puppy and their owner?
The breeder should always be the first source of advice and encouragement for any puppy owner, particularly concerning training and management. Sadly many breeders give little to no support to their customers once the puppy leaves their possession. This forces puppy owners to seek other sources for advice. There are few good books or other reliable sources of information on managing and training LGDs, so puppy owners often turn to social media for help. Most of these groups are full of misinformation and very harmful recommendations given by people without real training or experience. These groups can cause more harm than good for the puppy and the owner and waste time. It would be better to buy a puppy from a breeder who is willing and able to help their clients than to end up having to figure it out as you go.

15) Does the breeder offer a lifetime return policy on their puppies?
Life doesn't always go as planned. Farms are sold, divorce and deaths happen, and circumstances change. Sadly not everyone can keep their dogs forever, even if they want to. It's stressful enough to deal with a challenging situation without worrying about what will happen to the dog.

An unethical breeder refuses to help their puppies or owners. They would prefer those dogs end up in a rescue situation than step in and help. Profits and convenience drive them. Taking back dogs is neither profitable nor convenient.

Ethical breeders believe they are responsible for the dogs they bring into this world for life. They support their puppies and owners, even if some dogs need to return to them. If a breeder isn't willing to provide that commitment, they should not be breeding dogs. ​

My middle son, Michael, was a Boy Scout, rising all the way to the rank of Eagle Scout. The Boy Scout motto is "Be Prepared!" As a breeder and trainer of Maremma Sheepdogs as well as a breeder of dairy goats this is a motto that I try to live by. There are always items I will need any time I am working with my animals and the minutes it takes to find a thermometer to check the temperature on a sickly looking goat, a leash to move a goat or dog from one place to another or a knife to open a feed bag can quickly add up. I also need a place to store my barn and Cricket keys, iPhone, Airpods and reading glasses. (I can't even see my phone without them!) My pockets are full and I haven't even gotten to the good stuff yet!

As a positive reinforcement trainer I am always looking for opportunities to train my dogs and reinforce them for desired behaviors, even if it's just rewarding them for greeting me as I come into their pasture. (If you think LGD's can't be taught good recall you need to try clicker training!) And I have learned from past experience that it definitely pays to be prepared if your dog ever accidentally slips out the gate! We live on a busy road so running to find a leash and treats to catch my dog could mean the difference between life and death, so I don't leave that to chance. I never walk into a pasture without treats in my pockets and if I walk out there without a leash it was an accident and I usually end up needing to go get one. I had slip leashes made with my logo specifically for leading goats and dogs from one spot to another, inside my pastures. (I use a Blue 9 Balance harness, which we sell in our Online Store, if I take my dogs outside the fence, unless the dog is very trustworthy with a slip lead.)

Over the years I have tried various methods for carrying all of this paraphernalia. I don't always have pockets on my clothes and even if I do there usually aren't enough for all the gear, much less for treats. I have used different kinds of treat pouches but they usually have little to no pockets. I have used and worn out many fanny packs and until recently they were the best option I could find. But I don't like the way they look and they were so heavy with all the stuff I had to carry that they would irritate me, sometimes giving me a backache. In the winter I sometimes wore an insulated vest with inner and outer pockets. That worked pretty well, but it was too hot during the summer. I kept brainstorming, trying to come up with a solution. Somewhere I came across the idea of a "Dog Trainer's vest". That sounded perfect. So I looked for one on Amazon, and I found one, all right. For $100! Ouch!

Now if you are a dog trainer or owner of companion dogs maybe the $100 vest would be a good investment. But I breed Livestock Guardian Dogs and dairy goats they are both HARD on things like clothes and jackets. Pretty much every jacket I own eventually gets ripped sleeves and pockets from puppy teeth and baby goat hooves. My lightweight insulated vests usually only lasted one season so I could just imagine how long that $100 dog trainer vest would last. No thank you! So I searched for tactical vests, instead, thinking that might be what I need. What came up was fishing vests and they were perfect for my needs! They usually run between $20-$30, come in multiple sizes and colors and have more pockets than you can count. And you can get them made of a mesh material, which makes them cooler in summer and lightweight under a jacket in winter. 

I bought the Flygo brand vest in black mesh. I bought it in November and have used it every day since and it's still in great shape. I wear it under my jacket but I anticipate it will work just as well in summer. It holds everything I need and the weight of all the items is more evenly distributed, so no more backache! The only thing that would make it more perfect would be if it came in purple, but I'll keep looking and buy a new one if I find it. It's always good to have a spare! If you are looking to be prepared for anything your animals dish out then I highly recommend you get yourself one of these oh-so-fashionable vests! 

The plan is to always have the items I need in the exact same pocket every time I wear the vest, so I can quickly find what I need. Sometimes I get in a hurry and forget, and then I have to search for what I need through all those pockets. So stick to the plan! Here's what I usually have in my pockets. (Sorry, there's no One Ring, Precious.)

Essentials

Training Treats we Use

Don't Forget the Goats!

One additional item that I plan to add to my "Be Prepared" arsenal is goat treats. A long time ago, before I started Clicker Training my dogs, I used to always carry goat treats with me. (I use alfalfa pellets, large hay pellets and horse treats.) My goats knew this and it made catching even the shy ones pretty easy. Like the dogs they were always looking for a treat. When I started clicker training my dogs I replaced the goat treats with dog treats. Eventually the goats gave up and stopped checking my pockets for treats. But after attending the Across Species Clicker Training course at the Karen Pryor National Training Center in Washington in August 2022, I decided I wanted to clicker train my goats. This was something I had wanted to do for a while but didn't know how. While I was attending the week long course I worked with a goat training partner every day, and watched demonstrations, as well. Now I know how to clicker train my goats, I just need to make it a habit. And the best way to do this is to be prepared, like I am for the dogs. So I will be choosing a pocket to fill with goat treats, and we will see where this leads!

Life with Maremmas is always exciting, especially when they are young and energetic Maremmas. Parma at almost two years old is petite, faster than a gazelle and full of energy. And did I say petite? Earlier today my son, Noah, and farm hand, Ethan, were trimming goat hooves. We went into Pax's and Parma's pasture to do their goats. I thought I would make things easier by putting the dogs in the corridor between their pasture and the Puppy Parlor pasture. There's a gate across the road, which I had closed and latched. But not tightly enough to keep tiny little Parma in! Busy catching a goat, I looked over just in time to see Parma squeezing through the gate, with Pax close on her heels! I'm not sure if Pax would have fit through the gate but I wasn't taking any chances. I got him back into the pasture, handed Madeline (the goat) to Noah and went off to try to catch Miss Parma, with Ethan's help.

Oh boy did she have fun! Round and round the haystack she went, stopping for mere moments to check out everything she saw. Barking ferociously at the other dogs in the adjacent pasture to hers, sending the Call Ducks flying every time she ran through.  (Literally flying. They're one of the few domestic duck breeds that can fly.) She wasn't chasing the ducks. She was bowling with them! Every time Ethan or I got near her she zoomed right past or headed the other way.

Teaching recall to a Maremma is important and I work on it regularly with my dogs, but coming has to be more rewarding to the dog than not coming. Recall is pretty easy in their pasture. They're always happy to come see me because they know they will be rewarded. Always. Usually with treats and at a minimum with my attention, which some of them love more than the treats. They can count on it. But out free in the open is another matter. There are lots of more interesting things than me out there. And despite the fact that I had dried chicken (which I try to always have in my pocket) in my hand and was waving it at her and calling her name, the merry chase Parma was leading us on was more rewarding than the chicken. Or more likely she was so focused on seeing everything outside the pasture gate she didn't notice the chicken. 

We should have just let her run and get it out of her system, but there's something about a loose dog that scares me, so chase her we did. For probably 15 minutes. Finally she paused long enough to notice the chicken and came over to get it. I gave her a piece and immediately placed one of the slip leads I keep in my pocket over her head. I had 100 of these printed with my logo for myself and my customers because I use them so much when I need to catch or move dogs or goats. They are a valuable safety tool and I already had it ready for her as soon as she bolted. Once I had her secure I gave her lots more chicken, petting and praise and told her what a good girl she was. Then we walked back to join Pax and the goats.

But wait? Good girl? For running away? For ignoring me? For scaring the ducks and fighting through the fence with the other dogs? Surely she didn't deserve chicken for all that? No, but she ultimately did what I wanted her to do. She came to me. And you NEVER, EVER punish a dog for coming when called. Instead you reward them, be it with treats, verbal praise, affection, playtime or whatever. I know people who will yell and yell for their dog to come and then scold or even punish them when they finally do come. And then wonder why the dog gets harder and harder to get them to come when called. The dog can't make the connection between your calling them, their delay and your punishment. They don't understand why you're scolding them. But they can and will learn that coming results in consequences they don't like if you punish instead of rewarding them.  So always, always reward your dog when you finally get them to come. And I suggest you always have treats and a slip lead handy!

I had 100 of these slip leads made at JH Tackett, my local marketing store. (I have had a lot of great stuff for my business made there.) I used to get them from my vet but I use them so much for both my Maremmas and my goats that I finally decided to get my own printed, so I can give them to my goat customers. I train my puppies using aBlue 9 Balance Harness (which we sell in our store) and long lines, but eventually I also train my dogs to be led with a slip lead, so I can use it for quick moves from place to place and for emergencies. I always keep at least one in my pocket. Usually more make their way there, as well as in my Cricket Mini Golf Cart.

I recently discovered the most ingenious training and emergency tool ever. It's dehydrated chicken. That's it. The dogs absolutely adore it and it's dry and not at all messy to work with. I use regular treats for basic training but use either real meat or cheese or the dried chicken as a high value treat for when I really need to motivate the dogs. And I always keep a few pieces in my pocket for emergency dog catching sessions! It's expensive but a little goes a long way and it just might save your dog's life if you have a little escape artist like I do! 

The other day I posted a cute photo of one of my 8 week old Maremma puppies (these puppies but not this photo) with my goats. It was just a chance photo I caught and it was cute, so I did a quick IG/FB post, captioning it "Where an 8 Week Old LGD Puppy Belongs". I took it a step further and shared it on a few LGD groups. As I was doing so I was already deciding that this needed to be a blog post because the topic was too in-depth for just a social media post. So I started working on the blog post but went ahead and put the "readers' digest condensed version" on social media. Here is the post:

As expected I got immediate push-back on Facebook. Most people agreed with me but a couple didn't. Here are some of the comments I received. Instead of getting into a Facebook war I decided to address the concerns here:

Comment: "The way you phrased it, every LGD puppy belongs in with the livestock, even if they just got picked up by their next owner at eight weeks."

Reply: I hear over and over that it's "unsafe" for an 8 week old puppy to be alone in a barn. And of course I agree 100% with this. Where an 8 week old puppy belongs is in the breeder's barn or pastures with its parents, litter-mates and/or other mentor dogs, and with livestock, not with an inexperienced new owner, especially if this is a single puppy, being placed without either a partner or a mentor dog. The answer to this issue is simple. Don't buy puppies from breeders who send their pups home at 8 weeks old. Don't enable this lazy and irresponsible style of dog breeding and puppy rearing.

​I plan to write an entire post about this topic but the answer is that in most cases 8 weeks is too young for LGD puppies to go to new homes. Most LGD puppies are bought by first time owners who have no clue how to either properly socialize a puppy to livestock or how to keep the puppy safe and supported while doing so. Having the puppy stay in training with the breeder a few more weeks can make a huge difference both in the success of the puppy as a LGD and in its safety when it is brought home.

These 8 week old puppies are still babies. Their place is here, on my farm, with their litter mates and learning from their parents and other mentor dogs as well as my experienced puppy trainer  livestock for at least a month or two more.

As the pups grow we utilize other dogs besides their dams as puppy mentors. We are very careful to only choose dogs that are patient and gentle with the puppies and do not encourage or allow our dogs to "correct" the puppies. Puppies who are treated harshly by adult dogs can become aggressive or fearful and neither makes a safe and trustworthy LGD.  

The Real "Backyard Breeders"

Of course if the breeder isn't properly socializing the puppies to livestock in the first place then you're better off bringing home that puppy ASAP, if you are determined to buy from that kind of breeder. (I don't recommend it.)

There's a lot of criticism for "Backyard Breeders" out there. Usually this refers to breeders who are raising unhealthy, uncared for puppies from poor quality breeding stock, but often times the term is used as a weapon by breeders to judge other breeders. In my opinion the real "backyard breeders" are the people raising Livestock Guardian Dog puppies in their backyard (or in their home) instead of with livestock.  If the breeder is raising their puppies in their home, backyard or on the patio then it's best to get that puppy home and with your stock ASAP.

​But the REAL answer is not to buy from these "Backyard Breeders" in the first place, because even by 8 weeks old you have lost at least 3-4 weeks of vital socialization time with livestock and to be perfectly honest your puppy will never be the same as a puppy who was "raised in a barn". Puppies have critical developmental periods and where your pup spends even the first 8 weeks makes a huge difference in how they turn out. Breeders who raised their LGD puppies like companion dogs either don't understand puppy development or don't care about the impact it has on the future of the dog and the stock it's intended to guard. Ignorance or apathy, it doesn't much matter. Do yourself a favor and just say no to Backyard LGD Breeders.

Comment: "...if they are going to new homes, once they get there they need to spend time in the house to bond with their shepherd, learn how to behave in a house, how to ride in a car, walk on leash, and a whole lot of other things that will make them much better rounded LGD in the long run. 

Reply: I totally agree that LGD puppies need to be exposed to experiences and skills that will make them well-rounded dogs (leash walking, exposure to lots of sights, sounds and people), and these experiences should be started by the breeder during their critical learning period, in the first 12-16 weeks. The more things the puppy is exposed to during this time the more well-rounded and resilient they will be. Again, waiting until the puppy goes to their new home is not going to be as effective as having the breeder do it, because by that point the Critical Socialization Period is ending.

Just simply housing the puppies in a stall in the barn (or on a patio or in a house or yard) with no mental stimulation is not good enough. The puppy will be mentally and emotionally stunted and may suffer from all kinds of problems as adults, including aggression and fear, both of which are unsuitable in a LGD. If you instead buy a puppy from a breeder who uses a comprehensive puppy socialization plan like Puppy Culture, in addition to an intensive livestock socialization plan, your puppy will be well-prepared for its future as a LGD and as a well-rounded, stable dog and part of your family. 

Debunking "The Shepherd Way" Myth

Spend any time on LGD groups on Facebook and you'll likely encounter the "Shepherd Way of LGD Training" method. This ridiculous theory is heavily promoted on social media by self-described "experts" with no actual training or experience with LGD's. (What professional dog training or behavior courses have they taken? What scientific documents or books have they read? What is their experience with dogs in general and LGD's in particular? Are they a breeder or trainer of LGD's? If they are a breeder how long have they bred LGD's and how many puppies have they successfully placed in working homes?)

These "experts" make the claim that shepherds spent hours a day intensively interacting with and training their LGD's and overseeing their interactions with the flocks. So Livestock Guardian Dogs are independent natured because they historically spent so much time alone with the stock but they also spent every waking minute with the "shepherd"?! That is what we call and oxymoron. 

Maybe these people are confusing herding dogs with LGD's but if there's evidence for this "Shepherd Way Theory" I haven't found it. And that idea is refuted in this National Geographic video on Maremmas, where the "shepherd" clearly states that the dogs, for the most part, take the sheep out all day long, by themselves, and then watch them all night, by themselves. The shepherds mainly see them in the morning before the animals go out to pasture and when the dogs bring the sheep back in for the night. No snuggling on the couch in front of the TV for these dogs. The point of LGD's is that they can and do work largely independently. (This video, by the way, was made by the uncle of the breeder of Pegaso, our imported Italian dog.)

Even if ancient Shepherds did spend hours a day interacting with and supervising their dogs those shepherds and dogs lived out on the open range with the sheep. They didn't live in warm, cozy houses with cable TV and internet. You can't take an old world, ancient way of managing LGD's and just plunk it down in our modern world and expect the results to be the same. Sitting on the couch watching TV with your LGD puppy for hours a day and then taking them out to do the farm chores for 30 minutes to and hour, or even a couple of hours, is not going to be enough to train that puppy how to be a Livestock Guardian Dog. You are training it to be a companion dog. Which is fine if you want a companion dog, but not if you need a LGD.

Yes there are adaptations and compromises that have to be made in order to keep a puppy safe while also ensuring the proper early socialization with stock, but if someone wants to be the "shepherd" to their LGD puppy the answer is NOT turning the puppy into a couch potato with token "livestock exposure" for an hour or so out of a 24 hour day. The answer is for a safe place to be made for the puppy in the barn or pasture so the puppy can be properly immersed with the livestock and for the "shepherd" to get outside and spend more time with the puppy, in their natural LGD setting. And for the puppy to have a working LGD partner or mentor, (or both) too.

The Best Place to Get Advice is From Real Experts

If you want to hear from an actual expert on Livestock Guardian Dogs you should read some of the books on the subject by Raymond Coppinger, professor emeritus of biology at Hampshire College, and his associates. ​In 1976, Ray and his wife Lorna founded the Livestock Guarding Dog Project at Hampshire College, where he conducted a long-term study of LGD's involving Maremma Sheepdogs as well as other breeds. For ten years the Coppingers compiled data from over 1,400 dogs in research that is still the single largest, long term study of LGDs in the world. They actually started a Maremma Sheepdog registry that predates the MSCA and many Maremmas in the United States are descended from dogs that were imported for the project.

Here's a quote from the Hampshire College website on Coppingers' work: "This long-term investigation into the behavior of a new kind of dog for farmers and ranchers in the United States has resulted in greater understanding of early developmental behavior of dogs, and how early experience (or lack of it) can affect adult behavior."

I don't know about you but I would rather get my LGD advice from real scientists and experts on the subject than from people on social media with no actual credentials, training, education or experience in the field.

Nature Versus Nurture

Comment: "Dogs with good breeding will learn from you modeling the desired behavior, because that’s how they’ve been raised for centuries"

Reply: Another non-science comment. First of all, dogs don't mimic the behavior of humans, or of other species. To a degree they mimic other dogs but even that is minimal. If it weren't then  all I would need to do would be to pair one of my excellent adult LGD's with my puppies and juvenile dogs and the training would be done for me. I wish!

And no matter how much I pet my goats and tell the dogs "nice goat" it doesn't stop the chasing. Dogs don't do what they do to please us or because they love us. They do what their instincts, developmental stages and environments dictate. In order to stop the chasing the environment needs to be matched to their developmental stage (appropriate stock and conditions) and conducive to getting the behavior I want. And they need to be rewarded for the behavior that's desired to encourage more of it.

As far as the assertion that dogs with good breeding will naturally figure things out by curling up on the couch and watching TV, that is pure hogwash, not at all "how they've been raised for centuries" and not scientific at all. Again, in the words of an actual expert:

And I for one prefer science over urban legends. What about you?

**Disclosure - I am the Admin on a Maremma Sheepdog training and discussions Facebook group called Maremma Sheepdog Open Forum so maybe it seems a bit ironic that I am warning people to not get their training advice on Facebook. However our group is science based and run by people with real training and experience with the breed. We do not allow the promoting of unscientific claims or urban legends on our group or anything that harms or endangers dogs. The mission of the group is to make the world a better and safer place for Maremmas, their owners and the livestock they guard through true education and encouragement. My group is the only place on Facebook I recommend for training advice.

**I posted this on Facebook and as usual, got some pushback from people. There were a few comments as well as a long private conversation I had with someone today about the post so I wanted to clarify something that came up. When I refer to “The Shepherd Way” it has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with how real shepherds in Italy managed their dogs or still do. What I am referring to is Americans who cherry pick aspects of what I have been told Italian shepherds did/do without doing the whole thing.

For instance, I was told that Italian shepherds basically have house/barns, where the dogs can come and go freely between the part where the animals live and wher the humans live. I do not know if that's true but if it is that is nothing like what I see advocated on social media because most Americans don't have that kind of set-up. Do YOU have a barn attached to your house?

What’s more I don't think most Americans live anything like the ancient or even modern Italian shepherds did/do. Again, I don't know, but I would guess shepherds did and do spend hours a day outdoors with their dogs and stock. Most Americans spend the majority of their hours indoors, in front of some kind of screen, with very small amounts of time outdoors, even if they have a farm or homestead. And most people with farms have an off farm job. So where is this house puppy while the “shepherd” is at work?

My point is not that the real “shepherd way”, whatever that really is, doesn't work. I have great respect for these real shepherds. I just don't believe that's what is being promoted by most people who advocate this on social media. From my conversations and observations on these groups I only see people telling other people to “bring the puppy inside and be the shepherd” without clarifying or teaching them how to really do that. And that is what I have a problem with. I love real shepherds. Fake ones not so much.

And I also do not have a problem if people want to allow their LGD’s in the house. I still believe they should spend the majority of their time outside with the stock, but I doubt a visit to the house now and then will ruin a well started dog. (An improperly started one is another matter entirely.) I have clients who allow their pups in the house and I support their right to manage their pups as they see fit. My dogs might visit my house if I had a different set up. But my house is 300’ from my barn, with an unfenced area between them. I couldn’t have my dogs come in my house without putting them on a leash and walking them over, and if I did the animals would be unprotected. But if you want to bring your Maremma in your house more power to you!

Did you know that the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior recommends ONLY reward based training and is 100% against aversive training methods? Why? Because veterinarians are SCIENTISTS and SCIENCE supports positive training. It’s not only about what works or what’s “fast and easy”, it’s about what’s scientifically and ethically in the best interest of the dog. Here are just a couple of quotes from the AVSAB position paper on dog training:

“What techniques should be avoided in training?
An appropriate trainer should avoid any use of training tools that involve pain (choke chains, prong collars, or electronic shock collars), intimidation (squirt bottles, shaker noise cans, compressed air cans, shouting, staring, or forceful manipulation such as “alpha rolls” or “dominance downs”), physical correction techniques
(leash jerking, physical force), or flooding (“exposure”). The learner must always feel safe and have the ability to “opt out” of training sessions. All efforts should be made to communicate effectively and respectfully with the learner.

Why should aversive training techniques be avoided?
The consequences and fallout from aversive training methods have been proven and are well documented. These include increased anxiety and fear-related aggression, avoidance, and learned helplessness. Animals may be less motivated to engage in training and less likely to interact with human members of the household.”

We agree with the experts at AVSAB. At Prancing Pony Farm we are Positive Reinforcement Trainers and only use reward based training with our Maremma Sheepdog adults and puppies. We are so committed to seeing our puppies treated humanely that we put it in our puppy contract that all our puppy owners sign. The use of aversive training methods such as shock collars, choke chains, dangle sticks and other punishment based training methods is prohibited.