Prancing Pony Farm Maremma Sheepdogs and Mini Dairy Goats
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  • Home
    • About Us
    • Contact us
    • Veterinarian's Letter of Recommendation
  • Mini Nubian & Nigerian Dwarf Goats for Sale
    • Kids for Sale
    • Adult Goats for Sale
    • Breeding Plan Goats
    • The Doe Code
    • Our Dairy Goat Herd
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      • Mini Nubian Bucks
      • Standard Nubian Does
      • Nigerian Dwarf Does
      • Nigerian Dwarf Bucks
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        • 2024 Kidding Season
        • 2023 Mini Nubians
        • 2023 Nigerians
  • MSCA Registered Maremma Sheepdogs for Sale
    • Maremmma Sheepdogs for Sale
    • Why Choose Us?
    • Our Puppy Reservation Process
    • Available Puppies
    • Maremma Puppies - Current & Past Litters
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    • Livestock Guardian Dog Training & Consulting
    • About Kim Crawmer
    • Family Dog Mediation
    • Keeping Kids safe With LGDs
    • The Perfect Formula for Training Incredible Livestock Guardian Dogs
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  • Free Goat & LGD Membership
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Making People's Dreams Come True - When Saying Goodbye is Hard but So Right.

12/23/2023

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Picture
​A sweet Maremma puppy named Serena joined our farm 3 years ago. She was a stud service puppy sired by my excellent stud dog, Simba, originally intended to be a breeding candidate. She matured into a very sweet girl and an excellent LGD. However, I later determined that I didn't need her in my breeding program, so I decided to sell her. 

Several people were interested in her, but the timing wasn't right for them yet, so I waited. I was feeling conflicted about selling her so I decided it would happen when it was meant to, and if it didn't, that was ok, too.

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The Ultimate Guide to Keeping Your Livestock Guardian Dogs and Farm Animals Cool this Summer

7/12/2023

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Maremma Sheepdog puppy with goats
As a Maremma Sheepdog breeder and admin of the Maremma Sheepdog Open Forum, a large Maremma Sheepdog Facebook group, one question I often hear is, "How do Maremmas handle the heat?" Summertime can be challenging for Livestock Guardian Dogs as they seek relief from the sweltering heat. 


The heat is equally brutal on the livestock these brave dogs guard, whether that means goats, sheep, cattle, horses, poultry, or other species. As responsible owners and caretakers, it's essential to prioritize their well-being and implement effective cooling strategies. This comprehensive guide will provide expert tips and techniques to keep your Livestock Guardian Dogs and the animals they guard cool and comfortable throughout the summer months. 


I own a small farm in Lemoore, California. I breed MSCA-registered Maremma Sheepdogs and registered Mini Nubian and Nigerian Dwarf dairy goats. I also own a variety of other animals, including horses, mini horses, donkeys, chickens, ducks, geese, turkeys, and barn cats. In the Central Valley, temperatures regularly reach around 110-115 degrees in the summer. We have "excessive heat watch" warnings regularly from June to September. People always say it's "a dry heat," but no matter how you look at it, that's hot! 🥵


However, my Maremmas do very well in the heat. In fact, they do better than the goats and other livestock they guard. That could be because dogs are more resourceful than goats or poultry. Or maybe dogs are just hardier. But I haven't had any real problems with the dogs or horses and few problems with the goats. Though sadly, I have lost a few birds to the heat. 😢


High temperatures can put animals at risk of heat stress, dehydration, and even death. So, I ensure that my Maremmas, goats, and other animals are kept as cool and comfortable as possible throughout the summer. Below are some strategies and tips that you can use to help your Livestock Guardian Dogs, and other animals beat the heat, too. And most of them are very inexpensive and easy to implement.
Picture

Provide Adequate Shade

One of the simplest ways to keep your Livestock Guardian Dogs and livestock cool is to provide adequate shade. Trees, barns, or other shade structures can all offer protection from the sun. Here at Prancing Pony Farm, we have almost no trees left because of the drought conditions we have suffered in Central California for over a decade. Our property had dozens of trees when we first bought it, but most died due to the drought and either fell or had to be removed. We've planted new trees that are young and don't yet provide much shade. Instead, we primarily use a variety of man-made structures to provide much-needed shade for our animals.

Barns and Other Outbuildings

Our best source of shade is our main barn, which is roughly 90' long by 25 feet wide. It's just a tall, flat roof with sides of welded steel pipe and horse panels, so it has plenty of ventilation, which is super important for preventing heat stroke. We hang shade sails to block the incoming sun in the summer. 


We also have a one-sided hay barn that's usually empty of hay in the summer. (We stack our hay outside in the summer since it doesn't rain anyway.) We use that as extra shade for the animals. 


We have a 16 x 8' mobile office trailer in our barnyard that we converted into a dog grooming room and backup milking parlor. It's several feet off the ground, so the dogs and goats love to lay under this to cool off, and the shadow it casts provides a lot of shade later in the day. 


Our Puppy Parlor (puppy whelping room and milking parlor) was made from a 16 x 30' garden shed built on a concrete pad. It is completely enclosed, insulated, heated, and air-conditioned, with two industrial fans hanging from the ceiling. Dog doors going out to the goat pastures are on two sides, so the pups and mama dogs can come and go as they please. We don't run the AC that much, but the fans make a big difference in keeping the building cool. The dogs enjoy lying on the cool concrete floor under the fans during the hottest part of the day.

Other Shade Structures

Our property came with several horse shelters sprinkled throughout the pastures. These are tall metal structures with flat roofs and no sides. They work well and stand up to the wind, rain, heat, and animals pushing on them. A dead tree fell on one of them a few years ago, crushing the roof, but the structure is still intact enough to provide shade for our Maremmas, horses, and goats. We plan to get it repaired one of these days. But we have higher priorities right now, and an ugly shelter still works to keep the animals cool.


One thing we tried a few times for shade that didn't work well was pop-up canopies that are popular for parties, sporting events, and camping. They are convenient and look nice, but they don't hold up well to wind, rain, goats, dogs, and horses pushing on them. We gave up on that idea after buying a few that quickly ended up in the trash.


We use calf hutches from Calftel and Polydome in our pastures, but they are primarily for providing shelter in the wintertime. They are too hot to lay inside during the heat of the day, but sometimes the goats, Maremmas, or birds will lay in the shadows cast by the sun. 

Easy Homemade Shade Structures

Next, we made shade structures out of t-posts and shade sails. We buy the shade sails from Amazon or Costco and the t-posts from Lowes or Tractor Supply. We learned early on that these structures must be extra tall, or the goats will tear them up. The goats stand up on their hind legs to pull the sails down so they can use them like hammocks. The silly goats love laying in them, so the posts soon get bent, the sails sag, and eventually, the sails get torn to shreds.


It works best if the posts are at least 8' tall, with 10' being better. You measure out a rectangle slightly bigger than the dimensions of the sail, pound the posts in and attach the four corners of the sails to the top of the posts. And voila, you have a shade structure!


Where we live, we get no rain for most of the year, so the ground is like concrete, and it's hard to pound posts into the ground. Because of this, we mostly do our fence work in the wintertime. Otherwise, we must water the ground for several days to soften it. I may buy a gas-powered fence post-pounder someday to make this job easier.


These shade structures aren't pretty, but they work reasonably well. It's hard to get them super tight and straight and even harder to keep them that way. Over time they start to sag, and the goats tear them up, leaving nothing but a bunch of bent t-posts sticking out of the ground. 


After putting all that work and money into building those structures, we've determined there are better choices than this. But they are a quick way to provide your Livestock Guardian Dogs and livestock shade on a budget. They are suitable temporary structures that will last a year or two if you build them right. Or a day or two if you don't make them high and tight!


Another quick and inexpensive trick we've found is to attach sections of shade cloth to existing fences. Our fences are 5' high, so we buy 4 or 5' wide panels in whatever length we need in a particular area. These are made for lining patios and backyard fences and have rivets along all four sides, which makes attaching them to the fence with zip ties a breeze. This method only works for part of the day, but if you install it in the right spot, the animals can lay in the shadow cast by the sun. We use this as a backup for additional shade in a pasture, not as the only shade source.

Our Favorite Solution for Fast and easy (But More Costly) Shade

We've found that dog kennels with canvas roofs and sides provide the best shade for our Maremmas and dairy goats. We have several of these, and they can serve multiple functions. They can be used as mini "barns" for the goats or Maremmas. They provide shelter from rain, cold, and heat. We can put the goat minerals in there during the rainy season to keep them dry. They are an excellent place to feed the dogs so the goats can't steal the food, which can lead to resource guarding. And they are great when we need to temporarily contain an animal or group of animals, such as when we need to work in the pasture without the animals getting in the way. We have kennels for this purpose in most of our pastures and plan to add others eventually.


You can buy kennels from places like Tractor Supply or Lowes. We have a few of these, but the quality could be better, and they are not very easy to assemble. Our favorite kennels come from K9 Kennel Store. These kennels are much more expensive than the ones bought locally, and the shipping is costly, but the quality is worth it. They assemble with pins, like the corral panels used for horses, so it takes mere minutes to put them together or take them apart. They come in different sizes, or you can buy individual panels and use whatever you need to make different sizes and configurations. I prefer to buy configurations that use 4' and 6' panels since they are easier for me to move than the 8' panels.


You can also buy canvas roofs and side covers that provide additional shade or protection from the weather and keep the rain and sun off. These are super easy to put up and take down as needed. Much, much easier than the ones from Tractor Supply or Lowes! 


There are many other ways to provide shade for your livestock guardian dogs and goats. If you are handy with carpentry work or can hire someone to build a structure, you can provide something nice. I'm not talented in that area, so I have devised other measures that work well for us. But eventually, I would like to have some more permanent structures built. Structures that are a few feet off the ground and can double as climbing structures for the goats and shade structures for the dogs and goats would be perfect.

Digging to Keep Cool

Another way most dogs like to keep cool is by digging holes. If you provide them with a place to do it, they will take care of it themselves. Usually, they will find a shady, sandy spot or a spot that is already mostly bare dirt, and they will dig themselves a nice little Hobbit hole. Then they will lay in it to keep cool. If you don't have such a spot, you could give your dogs a sandbox in a shady area or build a sandbox with a roof so they have a nice soft spot to dig and lay. 


Since we don't have grass and only have an endless supply of dirt, I don't have this problem. My dogs make their own Hobbit holes to keep cool in. Usually, I manage to step in these holes when I'm out in the pastures and have fallen flat on my face many times because of these "Maremma death traps." Texting and walking in a pasture is almost as dangerous as texting and driving.
Maremma Sheepdog digging

Water, the Essential Element for Keeping Animals Cool

Water is crucial for hydrating and keeping your Livestock Guardian Dogs and other anaimals cool when temperatures soar. They should have easy access to plenty of water, and you should refresh it as needed.


You may find that your Livestock Guardian Dogs like to submerge themselves in the water because it keeps them cool. (Most of my Maremmas love water, but a few don't. )Because of this, you will need to change your water regularly. The dogs will pollute the water so that no one wants to drink it, especially if you own goats, who are more picky about having clean water than dogs. 


What works well is to provide drinking water for the animals and "swimming" water for the dogs in two separate containers. You can use a child's wading pool for the dogs, but using a shallow trough for horses or livestock works better. These are sturdier than wading pools and are easier to empty and clean. And they hold up better to dogs and livestock than children's wading pools do.
For providing drinking water, you want to use smaller containers to discourage the dogs from using them for wading. The easiest way to do this is to use a flatback horse bucket of approximately 20 quarts. Then you attach an automatic waterer designed for livestock to that bucket. (You can find these on Amazon or Tractor Supply, usually for less than $20.) Attach that to a hose and clip the whole thing to a fence or other stable object. That way, the water will continually fill, but the bucket is small enough that the dogs cannot usually play in it. The animals will always have clean water, and then you provide separate water for the dogs to swim in. These smaller buckets are also easy to dump, scrub, and clean periodically to keep algae and other nasty stuff out. 


You can use the automatic waterers to fill the swimming water or fill those with a hose. But those need to be dumped and cleaned up more often because the dogs will get them quite dirty when using them. The animals sometimes choose to drink from them, but that is their choice. I do always provide separate water so that they have clean water available. 


If you own ducks or geese that share a pasture with your Livestock Guardian Dogs or other livestock, you'll have to dump and clean the water at least daily. They make a terrible mess of the water, and it's not fit for other animals to use or drink. I will cover keeping poultry cool later in this article. 🐓🦃🦆


Of course, you can always have however many buckets you need and fill them with a hose by hand, but I have a lot of animals, so this method works much better for me. I prefer to put as much on autopilot as I can. This way, I only need to check that everything is working instead of filling the waters daily.

Automatic Waterers

In addition to the portable automatic waterers described above, I love a great tool called a Lixit. You can find these on Amazon and sometimes at pet stores or hardware stores. They attach to the faucet, and the animal learns to lick the end of it and make the water come out. I install Lixits in all of my pastures so that the animals can always access clean water in addition to the water provided in other containers. My goats, in particular, love these and prefer them over drinking out of buckets. (Remember what I said about goats being picky about clean water? 🐐) Most of my pasture faucets are 5' off the ground, so I use a 3' leader hose to bring the Lixit to a better height for drinking and zip-tie it to the nearby fence. ​

Another really great option we use for water is a product called a Nelson Waterer. These stainless steel automatic waterers are a bit expensive but they hold up very well to the wear and tear of dogs and livestock.

Putting it All Together

Usually, I get a four-way hose splitter and put that on my faucet. Then I have hoses going to the different water troughs and containers. I have one hose for the swimming water, one hose for the small bucket that the animals drink out of, one hose for the Lixit, and one extra hose for cleaning out buckets, filling other water buckets, and whatever else I need.


To keep your hoses from blowing out and causing the water to overflow, you can put a pressure regulator (designed for drip irrigation systems) on your faucet before you attach everything else. You can get these from Amazon or any hardware store. Make sure all your rubber washers are good quality and in good condition, and if you need to, you can also use plumbers' tape to minimize leaks. 


The Zero-G brand cloth hoses last much longer than rubber hoses, and the dogs are less likely to chew on them. I've also found some metal hoses on Amazon that hold up to most chewers. But a determined chewer will even chew these up, so be aware! (Ask me how I know! 🤦🏻‍♀️)

Electrolytes, Ice Packs and Animal Popcicles

In hot weather, electrolytes are crucial for animals. They help by replenishing fluids, balancing hydration, facilitating muscle function, supporting nerve signaling and cooling mechanisms, and maintaining organ function. Adequate electrolyte intake helps animals cope with heat stress and stay healthy.


Electrolytes are especially beneficial for goats (sheep, cows, or other dairy animals) if they are in milk. They can help prevent production from dropping due to dehydration. There are species-specific electrolytes for different animals. You can use them interchangeably, or you can get an all-species electrolyte. These powders look like Kool-Aid, and you mix them into the water. 


The brand I like best for my goats is Goat and Sheep BlueLite, from Premier 1 Supplies. This brand is the best one on the market, and the goats go crazy for it. For horses, I usually use Red Cell or a similar brand. For poultry, I use a poultry-specific brand.


There are electrolytes made for dogs, but I only use them if I have a sick dog, and it won't hurt the dogs to drink the ones for goats or other livestock. But they may or may not like it. Whenever I offer electrolytes, I put them in a separate bucket and offer them plain water in addition to the electrolytes. I do this to ensure the animals still drink even if they don't care for the electrolytes, and so the automatic waterers don't dilute the electrolyte solution.

​If the weather is especially hot you can use cooler ice packs and float them in the water. You can make homemade ice packs out of empty soda bottles or milk jugs. Before we built our puppy parlor we used the ice packs in the whelping box to keep puppies cool in the summer. It was still too hot, which is why we built the Puppy Parlor.

You can also make "popsicles" for your animals, using things like frozen broth or goat milk for the dogs and some combination of fruit or vegetables for goats, sheep, horses and poultry. Lay the "popsicle" in a dog dish or feed bucket so it doesn't all get wasted as it melts.

Misting Systems and Fans

Misting systems and fans can be a great way to keep livestock guardian dogs and other animals cool. Fans can be as simple as a box or stand fan pointing in the right direction. Or you can get fans with built-in misters. Just be sure to keep cords out of reach of your animals, as they can get electrocuted if they chew on the cords. Fans are especially helpful for cooling animals in a more enclosed building like a barn or chicken coop.


You can also install a mister system along a fence, a dog kennel, a barn wall, or some other spot. Misters provide a fine mist of water and can be put on a timer to come on and off automatically. We have used these in the past. Some systems are better than others, so definitely do your research here.


Of course, goats will not appreciate any of these methods of using water to help them cool off other than the drinking water and the electrolytes. Goats hate getting wet. They don't like rain. They don't like swimming, and they don't like misters. They would rather be hot than get wet, so if you own goats, the misters are only for the benefit of your Livestock Guardian Dogs. Your goats will watch the dogs having fun in the water and wonder if they have lost their minds.

Take a Siesta Approach to Life

Dogs are intelligent creatures. Most farm animals are smart, too. They will take a page from a book of many cultures and take a nice siesta during the hottest parts of the day. I suggest you go with this natural flow of things and allow them to do that. If you have activities such as training or husbandry care like trimming hooves, grooming, or anything else, it would be best to do that in the early morning or late evening hours. 


If you have a cool building to work in, that might be a good option. But I don't suggest working with the animals outside when it is too hot. That will be harder on them and you. Allowing them to rest and stay cool during the hottest hours reduces stress on them and you as the owner.


We do most of our barn work at night, right before it gets dark and on into the night. Some people prefer to get up early to do their chores, but that doesn't work for me, so we do things this way. We also have our Puppy Parlor and an air-conditioned dog grooming trailer that we can use if we need anything done during the day. But for general outdoor activities, we do all that after it cools off.

Grooming Helps Keep Dogs Cooler

Keep your Livestock Guardian Dog cool and comfortable with regular grooming. Grooming removes mats, tangles, and loose fur and improves air circulation around their skin, allowing heat to escape more easily. Plus, maintaining clean coats helps prevent the buildup of dirt and debris, ensuring good airflow. Grooming controls shedding and reduces the risk of heat-related illnesses like heatstroke. Help your loyal LGD beat the heat and stay healthy with proper grooming.

Keeping Poultry Cool

Summertime can be challenging for poultry, as birds can be more susceptible to the heat than mammals. All of the steps already discussed apply to farm birds. Here's a recap, plus a few extra tips.
 
  • Provide shaded areas for birds to retreat from the sun. Use shade cloth, trees, or some of the recommended shelters. Keep the waterers in the shade to cool the water and refresh them periodically.
  • If your birds are in a coop, be sure it has good ventilation. You can use fans to circulate the air, but keep them at a safe distance from the birds.
  • If your birds are free range, make sure they have easy access to shade.
  • Provide plenty of cool water. Your birds will need access to cool water throughout the day. Consider using a large waterer, and add frozen water bottles to help keep the water cool. 
  • Ducks and geese should have extra water for swimming. You can use the recommendations made earlier in this post. Remember to change the water often and ensure the birds don't pollute the water for the Livestock Guardian Dogs and other animals.
  • Misters are an excellent way to decrease the temperature and keep your birds cool. You can install misters around your coop or run area and set them to a timer to provide periodic cooling bursts. ​
  • Your birds will be more comfortable if they can keep themselves clean, so providing a dust bath is a good idea. If you have a dusty barnyard like us, your birds will make their own dust baths. Otherwise, a shallow pan filled with sand or dirt will encourage your birds to keep themselves clean and can also help keep them cool.

Conclusion

Don't let the summer heat endanger your Livestock Guardian Dogs and their charges. It's easy to keep them cool and comfortable if you follow the tips shared in this blog post. Provide shade, fresh, clean water, and consider scheduling activities for cooler parts of the day. By taking these measures and being proactive about your animals' well-being, you'll ensure that all of your animals remain happy, healthy, and protected all summer long. ​
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Does Feeding Alfalfa Hay Cause Urinary Calculi (Kidney Stones) in Goats?

6/28/2023

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Jardine Meadows Jessie, Mini Nubian doe, eating alfalfa hay
Jardine Meadows Jessie helping herself to some yummy alfalfa
​If I feed my goats alfalfa hay, will it cause Urinary Calculi (kidney stones)?

This is the number one question I get asked by new goat owners. I get this question in one form or another so often that I have been meaning to write a post about it for years, but I kept forgetting. But when two clients recently asked me the same question two days in a row I finally decided I needed to write that post. So here goes!

Most people believe that the answer to the question is yes. Most of them are terrified to feed alfalfa, or at least to feed too much of it. Even veterinarians will often say alfalfa causes Urinary Calculi. But that is one of the biggest urban legends out there about feeding goats, and one that truly drives me crazy!
We go through tons and tons of alfalfa a year. My goats love it, as you can see!

The simple answer is that feeding alfalfa hay to goats doesn't generally cause Urinary Calculi. Urinary calculi is primarily caused by too much phosphorus in the diet. Grain, grass hay, and forage hay are all high in phosphorus. Feeding grain is the fastest way to cause stones since it is very high in phosphorous. Here at Prancing Pony Farm, we only feed grain to does when milking them. Bucks, dry does, and kids do not get any grain except for an occasional treat or bribe to get them to come into the barn. 

​Alfalfa is really good for goats, especially dairy goats. It's rich in calcium, with a ratio of 4:1 on average. Ideally, you want a balance of at least two parts calcium to one part phosphorus in the diet. Adding alfalfa can supply this needed calcium and help prevent kidney stones from forming. It's high in protein, calories, and other nutrients, eliminating the need for grain to put weight on most goats. Goats love it so they readily eat it. The only problem with feeding too much alfalfa is that some goats will get fat. But that's from overfeeding more than the type of hay used. When my bucks start looking pregnant I know it's time to cut back on the alfalfa! 😂
Feeding goats is hard work!

Some say that while goats need at least a 2:1 calcium-to-phosphorous ratio, feeding straight alfalfa will cause another type of kidney stone. I don't know if that's true, and I haven't seen it in my herd. People want to focus on one ingredient as the culprit in the diet when it's not that simple. Other mineral imbalances and dehydration can also cause Urinary Calculi. (Just like in humans.) So I recommend people use quality minerals and ensure their goats have fresh, clean water. Balance the grass hay with some alfalfa, and don't feed grain.

An alfalfa/grass mix is ideal for most people, especially for pet goats or males, who don't need excess calories. For my herd, I feed primarily straight alfalfa. That's because it's the most economical and best nutrition for breeding goats. Grass hay is too expensive here, so I don't use that for my goats at all. I was feeding grass hay to my ponies and my donkey for a while, but even they get straight alfalfa now. Occasionally I'll buy a little forage hay for variety, but the goats and horses tend to waste that. I prefer to feed alfalfa and have them eat it all.
Besides milking, this is how we use grain, and it doesn't take much!

I have been feeding straight alfalfa for seven years and have never had a goat with kidney stones. I heard the same thing about horses long before I had goats. I heard that if you fed horses too much alfalfa, they would get kidney stones. But most of my horses have eaten nothing but alfalfa most of their lives. And most of them have lived into their 30s. None of them have ever had kidney stones, either.

All my goats get alfalfa hay and Craftsmin organic loose minerals from Holistic Livestock Supply. I also add Premier One Supply's vitamin A, D, and E premix, to combat vitamin E deficiency. Because of the California droughts and our general weather patterns (we get rain only a few months of the year), we don't have green forage here most of the year. Even alfalfa can't supply enough vitamin E so adding the premix in helps. If I feed any grain to my milking does, it's usually whole oats, crimped barley, or COB, and used sparingly.

And that's how I feed my herd. Of course, wethers are more at risk for Urinary Calculi than does or bucks. I don't own any wethers so I can't share any experience there. I can only share what I do and how I feed my herd of bucks, does and kids. I urge everyone to research and do what works for them and their goats. ​
Goats will help themselves to yummy alfalfa!
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It's Your Dog. There is No One "Right" Way to Raise, Train and Own a Livestock Guardian Dog, Even My Way.

6/23/2023

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I will probably ruffle some feathers with this post, but something has been bothering me for a while, and I need to share my thoughts in my own rambling way. As a breeder and trainer of Maremma Sheepdogs and an advocate of the breed, I have been very vocal in how I believe Livestock Guardian Dogs should be raised and socialized as puppies. I firmly believe that LGD puppies should get a very early start with livestock and continue that way until they are grown. Puppies have critical socialization periods in the early weeks, and taking advantage of those periods by having them immersed with livestock at that age can ensure their future success as LGDs. 

I feel strongly about this issue because I have acquired puppies from breeders who raise their dogs as companion dogs in those first weeks and months. These pups were raised in houses, backyards, and patios, with no livestock exposure until they came to my farm at 3-4 months old. I have seen the effect of this lack of early livestock exposure on their training (it's a lot more work to train them) and how those dogs turned out compared to how my puppies turned out. I firmly believe that how I raise my pups is the best practice for LGDs, and what is advocated on some Facebook groups is terrible advice. I even wrote a blog post entitled "Debunking the Shepherd Way Myth of Livestock Guardian Dog Training."

I stand behind what I said in that post. However, I need to clarify what I mean by how I raise my puppies. I also have probably not understood what others mean when they refer to themselves as "shepherds."

After I wrote that blog post, I had an interesting discussion with someone in my Maremma Sheepdog Open Forum Facebook group who advocates the "Shepherd Way" of training. And I found that she and I had a lot more in common than we thought. So there is more of a communication issue than a conflict of beliefs here.

I have one adult Maremma named Titus, who is a companion dog. He lives inside my house full-time with my other three companion dogs. I bred him, and he was raised outside with the stock until he was 5 months old. He's been a house dog ever since. He is perfectly house-trained, leash-trained, and crate trained. He has gone on many walks in regular neighborhoods, to the dog park many times, to the vet, to the groomers, and on long car trips. None of this happened before he was 5 months old, but he quickly adjusted to this companion dog life.

​The "companion home" discussion is an issue for another post, which I hope to write soon. For years I turned down any requests for companion homes for my puppies. I did this primarily because of what other breeders said or what I read on Facebook. I now realize I missed out on many great homes for my pups for no good reason. And since I started saying "yes" to the occasional request for companion puppies, I have learned even more about these fantastic dogs. Choosing to keep one of my puppies as a companion dog has taught me even more. They really can thrive in pet homes. In the right home with a dedicated owner. Just like in working homes. It's primarily the commitment of the owner that matters. But again, that's a topic I plan to expand on another day.
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Other than Titus, the rest of my Maremmas live outside with the livestock 24/7. They never come inside my house. But that is mainly because my house is several hundred feet from my barn and not attached by any fence. I would have to put them on a leash and walk them to my house to bring them inside. That is too much work when I am busy caring for a farm and running a business. But if my property were set up differently, I imagine my other Maremmas would come in to "visit" occasionally. Probably the goats, too. 😆

But because my dogs live outside, does that mean I'm not "shepherding" them? While I'm not too fond of the term, it's probably a relatively accurate description of my role with my dogs. I don't have an "off-farm" job. I run a business breeding dairy goats and Maremmas. I spend several hours a day outside taking care of my animals. I even sleep outside sometimes if puppies or goats are being born. Therefore I spend plenty of time bonding with my puppies and my dogs. I have no need to bring them into the house to bond with them because we bond outside. That is probably the main area where I differ from the "Shepherd Way" advocates.

I am NOT an advocate of the "hand-off" method of LGD training. Not at all. I utilize and advocate only positive training methods with my puppies. I also raise my puppies using Puppy Culture and Badass Breeder methods. I have a very carefully laid out puppy socialization program, exposing the puppies to sights, sounds, new people, and activities. This ensures that the puppies will be resilient and well-adjusted and thrive in various homes, including working or companion homes or something in between.

Another point I should make is that I sell puppies at 12 weeks or later. Most are in the 4-8 month range when they leave here. And I primarily sell puppies in pairs or to homes with another LGD, so there are no "8-week-old puppies alone in a barn" coming from my farm. Most of my pups are 50-60 lbs or more when they leave my farm. They aren't tiny babies.

​And if someone insists on owning a single LGD, I make it very clear that they will have to spend a lot of time with their puppy to compensate for the deficit. All of my dogs work in pairs or teams so I do not advocate single dogs alone with the livestock.
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But the actual topic of this post is not how I manage my own dogs or socialize my puppies. That's just the backstory. My point here is that even though I believe what I am doing is right for my dogs and the puppies I breed, it is not the only way for people to manage their dogs. I am not of the "my way or the highway" camp. 

Obviously, if someone does not feel comfortable doing things the way I do or cannot do them, then my trying to force them to be just like me will not help them. And my goal as a breeder is always to help my puppy owners succeed with their dogs. I worry that people may have read my post and thought that if they did things any differently than the way I recommend, I would be mad at them or criticize them. And nothing could be further from the truth. 

Many of my puppy families do things differently than I do. I have had families who raised their puppies in the house for part of the time initially. Some may continue to let their dogs come and go indoors. Some clients bought their dogs as LGDs and later sold their farms. Their dogs transitioned to the companion dog life with no problem. 

Many of my families do fun and cool things with their dogs, like taking them on vacation, camping, to the beach, or on family trips. One family takes their dog regularly to their vacation home in the mountains. He goes on hikes with them to protect them from mountain lions. That's an excellent use of their dog and fun for dog and family alike!

The simple fact is that all these dogs have thrived under their owners' management. They succeeded because their owners were committed to making things work. They just made things work in the way that worked for them. I do not have a problem with that. Why should I? The dogs are happy, the people are happy, and, I assume, the livestock is safe in the dogs' absence. That is all that matters.
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There is a person in the Maremma industry that I used to have a lot of respect for. I will call her "the Maremma guru" because that describes what she seems to believe she is. She is always talking about "what is true for white dogs" as if she is the only one that knows that truth. She seems to think she speaks for the Maremmas in much the same way that the Lorax speaks for the trees.

There are a lot of people in the LGD community that don't agree with her; people who have a much longer history and more experience with these dogs than she has. But she came onto the scene and declared herself the expert, refuting what people who had decades of experience said. I foolishly believed everything she said for a long time. I drank deeply from her particular brand of koolaide.

I used to tell people she knew more about the breed than anyone in the US. I promoted her tirelessly, referred many people to her for help and even had many links to her business on my own website. We had a lot in common and a lot we agreed on. There are still things we agree on.

But the more I got to know her, the more I realized that there was a lot that we disagreed on. There was a lot I felt like she was dead wrong about. (Like the Companion Maremma issue.) I no longer believe she knows as much as either of us thought she did. No one is right about everything. Being able to admit that is important. Eventually we parted ways and we are both better off for it. I know I am, anyway.

One thing I thought I had in common with her was this belief that the "Shepherd Way" was wrong. But as I talked to other people, I realized that I had more in common with advocates of the Shepherd Way than I thought and less with her. And I realized that being a shepherd is not a bad thing or a good thing. It's simply how some people describe their interactions with their dogs. It's a funny term, but I don't have a problem if people want to use it.

When the Maremma guru and I were still friends, she used to refer people to me occasionally to buy puppies. In almost every instance, she told me that she was "sending someone my way" because they were "not good enough" for her dogs, but they would be "fine" for me. I was always unsure about how I should take that. 🤔 It seemed like a backhanded compliment. But I appreciated the referrals.

Most of these people she "sent my way" never contacted me, but a few did buy dogs from me. The first time it happened, she later told me, "I can't believe you sold him a puppy." She didn't like the guy, and I think her referral was a test. Apparently I failed the test. I told her he was a very nice guy with a lovely farm, his other LGD needed a partner, and his sheep required protection. And I told her she shouldn't have referred him to me if she didn't want me to sell him a puppy. 🤷🏻‍♀️ That ended the discussion.

Another time she referred someone to me to buy a puppy as a partner for her adult LGD. She told me the client used an invisible fence, and I "would have to discuss what to do about that" with her. Again, this seemed like a test. I talked to the client. She told me she has an easement that requires her neighbors to drive through her property to get to their house. This means she can't have a gate across her road. She uses only positive training with her dogs and cats but uses an invisible fence to keep them safe. I have a couple of fence jumpers, so I understand that dilemma. A hotwire at the top of my fence was the only solution I found that worked. And an invisible fence makes sense for this client. It certainly is better than a dog getting out. Being hit by a car is as aversive as you can get. 😢 I gladly sold her the puppy, and she's been one of my best clients yet. I hear from her almost weekly, with frequent photos and updates. I may have failed the Maremma guru's test, but my puppy won, big time, in getting a wonderful home, invisible fence and all.
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​Another person was referred to me by the Maremma guru around the same time as the invisible fence client. The Maremma guru had sold dogs to this new client's neighbors and repossessed them later. (She did this frequently whenever a new owner did something she disapproved of.) I knew about that situation because the Maremma guru told me about it without remorse. And why, you might ask, did the Maremma guru repossess the dogs? What terrible thing did the clients do? She told me they "made the dogs into pets." Meaning they let them in the house occasionally. Shocking, I know.

When my new client came to me, she was extremely nervous about buying dogs, partly because she had seen what the Maremma guru had done to her neighbors. She told me it was traumatic, with lots of begging, crying, and screaming when the dogs were taken away. I was later told by another party that those people had bought the dogs from the Maremma guru in the first place because their previous dog had died. Of course, that made the whole situation all the more traumatic. I can't imagine inflicting that kind of pain on people without just cause. And just cause would be something like abuse of the dogs. That was not the case here, from what I've heard.

My new client had already placed a non-refundable $1000 deposit on two pups, but when the dogs were ready to go, she was still having second thoughts. Until the day she took them home, she debated backing out on the sale. She was apprehensive that something would go wrong. And a lot of the reason why she was so worried was because of her neighbor's experience with the Maremma guru.

The client lives in Oregon, so she drove to my farm in California "for a visit and to maybe get the pups." Her visit required two days and an overnight hotel stay. On the first day, she spent five hours at my farm, interacting with the puppies and asking me a million questions. She asked me what she should do if she wanted to go on a trip. Could she take the dogs? Her husband races cars, and they go out of state for his races. She wanted to know if it would be ok if they brought the dogs along. I told her that as long as her livestock would be safe at home, there was no reason not to take the dogs if she wanted them to go. 

This client spent five hours asking me one question after another like she was testing me to see if there would be something I would say that would be a red flag to her. She was worried that she would do something wrong and that I would repossess the dogs like the Maremma guru had done to her neighbors. 

I finally told her that while the Maremma guru and I agreed on a lot and respected her very much, I was not her. I did things very differently and I was not going to repossess her dogs. I told her that once the dogs left my farm, they were no longer mine, and it was not my business or choice what she did with the dogs. I told her what I always say to my clients. "They are your dogs; you can do whatever you want with them. You don't need my permission or my blessing." 

She went to her hotel to think it over. Then she called the following day to tell me she was buying the puppies. She came and got the two she had liked the best and took them home. And she has been a wonderful puppy owner. I don't know if the dogs ever go on race car trips with her and her family. It's not my place to ask. They are no longer my dogs.
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Now I would not advocate anyone doing anything to harm their dogs, and that includes using aversive training methods. But if somebody wants to take their dogs on outings or on vacation or let them sleep in the house with them every night, that is their business. Truly.

This is not to say that I don't believe that my way of training is not superior to how a lot of people manage their dogs. I do. How I train works best for me as a breeder, and it's what works best for my livestock. Having owned dogs raised my way and the opposite way, I would never again buy a puppy from anyone who doesn't raise puppies the way I do. No more patio puppies for me! But that's my personal choice, based on what works for me. 

And I will continue to raise my puppies the way I do while they are under my care because it's the ideal way to raise, train and socialize LGDs. The proof is in the dogs I have produced over the years. But once those puppies leave here and go to their new homes, they are no longer my dogs. And my puppy owners need to do what works for them and their new dogs. 

So don't worry. If you buy one of my puppies and want to do things differently from the way I do, I will not be mad at you. I'm not going to tell you you're doing it wrong. Instead, I will do my best to support you. Because it is not my dog anymore. It's your dog.
Reserve Your Maremma
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How to Raise and Train Outstanding Livestock Guardian Dogs - How we Integrate Our Maremma Puppies into Our Dairy Goat Herd

1/22/2023

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Our Maremma Sheepdog puppies are born in our Puppy Parlor, where they have a safe, climate controlled environment in which to grow. The Puppy Parlor sits in one of our goat pastures, and is also used for milking the goats, treating any sick or injured goats and even occasionally for kidding if the weather outside is bad. Because of this our puppies are surrounded by the sights, sounds and smells of the goats (and other livestock) from birth. But once the puppies reach about three weeks old their eyes and ears are fully open, they are steady on their feet and are climbing out of their whelping box. This is when the Socialization Phase of puppy development starts, and when the real fun begins! The puppies are now able to navigate the dog doors (with a little help) and begin going outside and exploring the wide world of our farm. We have carefully designed our Puppy Parlor and its attached pasture so that the puppies make a safe, smooth transition from tiny little fur balls to Livestock Guardian Dogs. Watch the video below to see the beginning stage of this journey. We’ve added a voiceover to the video to further explain the process. Enjoy!
Starring in the video are dairy goats Honeybee (brown Mini Nubian), Aurora (white and brown Nigerian Dwarf) and Pearl (white Mini Nubian). The dog stars are Benson Ranch Marisa and her litter, sired by Unfinished Acres Sevro. The dogs in the background are Marcella and Gianna. There are other goats far in the background, as well.
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Will My Livestock Guardian Dog's Behavior with Livestock Improve? What are Critical Learning Periods in Puppies, Why do They Matter, and What Should you do if You've Missed Them?

10/15/2022

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An 8 week old maremma puppy snuggling with a baby goat. Both animals are right at home and well bonded, as they should be.

​I am an admin on Maremma Sheepdog Open Forum, a Facebook group for Maremma owners and enthusiasts. This group is run by me and some other Maremma trainers so we often get questions about training issues. A question popped up recently, which I am quoting below.  This is a scenario I hear ALL the time on our group and through my own website and business page, so I decided to write a blog post about the topic. 

Here is the question:

"Seeking advice: I am working on a homestead in upstate NY, I arrived here a couple of weeks ago.  The owners of the land recently acquired two 10 month old Maremmas (they are sisters as well). They acquired them late due to the original breeder having someone back out last minute, and then struggled to home them. Needless to say, they were not bonded with goats or sheep (they apparently grew up in a pig pen).  They are now with 5 kids and 3 adult goats and chasing them CONSTANTLY. They will at times latch onto hind legs, and nip at their sides.  Thankfully skin hasn't been broken yet, but unless they are supervised all day, they will spend all their time chasing the goats.  So far, we have separated the Maremmas so they don't encourage each other.  They share a fence line however so they can see each other and be comforted by each other's presence. We try to keep the herding border collie away for the time being, as it seemed like they were mimicking her herding instincts. We are worried that they were brought into the herd way at a much too late age, and aren't going to improve. Any suggestions are experience with this is very much appreciated!"

Here are my thoughts on the issues raised:

This is a disaster waiting to happen and unfortunately it's a story that I hear all too often. There are so many things going on here that it's going to take a long post to cover it all.

First of all there are two big red flags here and one well-intentioned mistake. First, it's not at all appropriate for 10 month old pups to be unsupervised with baby goats or sheep. Some rare pups mature early but they are the exception, not the rule. Most LGD's aren't considered trustworthy with baby ruminants or poultry until age 2 or later. It's not because they are bad pups. It's because they are pups. So remove the baby goats ASAP. Ten month old puppies shouldn't be guarding baby goats, particularly when little is known about the history, breeding or early socialization of the pups.

Second, a LGD should NEVER, EVER have unsupervised time with the stock in the presence of a herding dog or any non-LGD. It's ok for your LGD to interact with your other dogs, but not with the stock unless you trust your non-LGD and you are physically supervising the interactions and are sure the other dog isn't teaching the LGD's fun new games. The LGD's most certainly can and probably will pick up bad habits from the herding dog. And this is not because your herding dog is bad. It's because he's a herding dog. LGDS's and herding dogs are both purpose bred dogs. Bred for polar opposite purposes. (The OP knows this but I'm stressing it for the sake of those that don't.)

And lastly, these pups need to (temporarily) be separated from the stock but NOT from each other. LGD's need partners and young LGD's need appropriate playmates. A goat, sheep or chicken isn't a suitable playmate. Another puppy is. Usually allowing the puppy to have a partner reduces inappropriate behavior with stock. BUT if the puppies weren't properly socialized to begin with or have picked up bad habits, or if the stock isn't suited to the pups, then peer pressure can kick in and they can sometimes get into trouble together. You may need to separate the puppies from the stock temporarily, until you get things under control. So for now I would put both pups together next to the goats and don't allow either of them unsupervised with the animals until you can assess the situation and come up with a new plan. 

Now to address the root of the problem and the question of whether the pups can improve or not. 

People sometimes acquire puppies or dogs from dubious sources or without knowing much or anything about how those pups were raised. Then they are shocked and dismayed when they find the very dogs they bought to protect the stock have become a danger to them. It's not the new owners' fault. Most people really don't have any idea what's involved in properly socializing and training a LGD. In most cases they trusted the person who sold them the dogs and that person took the money and is long gone, not willing to give advice or point them to truly helpful resources and certainly not willing to take the puppies back. This is really a shame. In my opinion the breeder's responsibility to the puppies they bred continues as long as those dogs live. Meaning they should give lifetime support, encouragement and advice to the owner and be willing to take the dogs back if the owner can no longer keep them for ANY reason. But instead they either ignore the new puppy owner or tell them it must be their fault. It's not that a breeder can fix every problem but they certainly should do their best to help. But since this breeder in question obviously can't or won't support the buyer of her pups I'll do my best to give advice, and to share my own experiences with such dogs. (Yes, unfortunately I've had to learn this lesson the hard way, too. Which is why I feel so strongly about the subject.)

Pups chasing and harassing stock is a very serious issue.  Now I am not talking about the occasional case of the "zoomies" many young dogs get. The zoomies is when the puppy is full of energy and feeling good and they suddenly decide that those goats or sheep would make a fun toy. There's a playful energy to it, not an aggressive one. It's still inappropriate but it's different, and usually pretty easy to fix by redirecting or switching out the stock. Nor am I talking about poultry. All pups need to be carefully supervised with poultry and most aren't totally poultry safe until around age 2, though some do mature earlier. But dogs of this age aggressively chasing and biting larger stock like sheep or goats is an entirely different matter. And there are  multiple issues at play here.

The first is that the livestock needs to be matched to the developmental stage of the puppies. Baby lambs or goats are not appropriate stock for most 10 month old pups. They can visit the babies under supervision if they are well mannered, but they shouldn't be left alone with them. (I rarely leave any dog under age 2 unsupervised with baby animals or poultry.) Pups this age need to be with ADULT stock and the stock needs to be of the right temperament. You do not want aggressive stock because they could cause the pups to become fearful or even aggressive if they feel threatened and bullied. Regardless of what some people will tell you an animal that continually head butts a puppy for no reason is NOT a good puppy trainer. 

On the other hand excessively flighty stock is also bad. A goat or sheep that runs every time the puppies make the slightest move actually excites the puppy and encourages it to chase. Chasing is a self rewarding behavior and once the puppy learns the habit it's very hard to break. So if you have such flighty stock you need to get them away from the puppy immediately. Even my goats, who have all been around Maremmas all their lives, do not all make suitable puppy trainers. Often times I'll notice a puppy chasing and all I need to do is remove one goat who's acting like a silly lunatic and everything is calm again. What you want is stock that looks at the puppy pulling on its ears as if to say "buzz off, kid" and completely ignores them. The puppy gets bored and the chasing stops. They still might try it again, because they are puppies, after all, but they will try it less and less. And when they realize they're not getting the response they want they will eventually quit trying. 

Another issue is that most people, when they first get their LGD's, have stock that have never been around a LGD. They think of dogs as predators (because they are!) and they are sure you've lost your mind for bringing one into their midst. So that's why putting the puppy and the stock side by side, until they are acclimated to each other, is important. If you keep them side by side until the stock calmly accepts the puppy then you'll have a lot less chasing when you do put them together. If you bought your puppy from a breeder that properly socializes their pups with stock the pups will seek out the comfort of your stock and will be more likely to behave calmly. But your stock needs to get used to your pup. So give them time.
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Polar has lived with these goats her entire life and they with her. Katniss (the doe) is completely comfortable with Polar interacting with her newborn kids. This behavior in both animals is the result of proper socialization as babies.

What if your puppies didn't get the best start?

The other big contributing factor in stock chasing is improper socialization with stock when the pups were small. (Or no socialization at all.) This is a huge problem and more common than it should be. Irresponsible breeders put little to no effort into socializing the puppies and then a scenario like the OP's is the result. If you bought your pups from a breeder that failed to socialize the pups properly to stock then you're probably going to have a really hard time of it and a lot of work ahead of you. Contrary to what some people will tell you it's not all instinct with LGD's. It really does take nature AND nurture to produce a great LGD. You can't buy a puppy from a breeder who raises them in their house or on their patio and then put it out with your stock and expect instincts to just take over. It doesn't work that way. And if that breeder tells you that's an acceptable way to do it they are either lying to you or are ignorant of puppy development. LGD’s need to be socialized to stock almost from birth, in order to maximize the chances of success.

All puppies have a critical socialization period that begins once their ears and eyes open and end at roughly 12-14 weeks. (It varies by breed and dog.) This is when puppies need to be socialized INTENSIVELY with livestock, as well as with humans and to a variety of sights, sounds and experiences. A responsible breeder will have their puppies in close proximity to stock as soon as safely possibly. Definitely BEFORE 6 weeks and honestly by 3-4 weeks (with protected contact at first ) is the minimum I would accept. Once they can see and hear well they should be seeing and hearing the stock they will guard, or similar stock. If all they are seeing is the swimming pool, patio or the couch and TV then you've got a problem. And taking those patio pups for a walk past the chicken coop occasionally or even daily is NOT enough. In order to learn the "language" and "culture" of livestock, puppies need to be immersed in that "culture" 24/7 DURING the critical learning period. Those first 12 weeks are more important than any other time in the dog's entire life. You can certainly still train an older pup who missed this critical learning window, but the dog will never live up to their full potential. And it WILL be more work for you, I'm sorry to say. How do I know that? Because I made the same mistake myself. 🤦🏻‍♀️ So don't feel bad if you did it, because it's only through my own mistakes that I have learned these hard lessons. But hard lessons often help us grow and learn and do better so let my mistakes help you.
These 4 week old pups are at the beginning of the Socialization period. They are fearless and curious about the world. Look how they interact with the goats! Experiences they do and don't have during this time will shape them into the dogs they will become. LGD puppies need to be interacting with livestock NOW, not living in a house or on a patio. A breeder who raises their puppies in a home setting instead of a barn setting for the first 8-16 weeks is socializing them to be companion dogs, not LGD's. If you need a LGD buy a puppy that has been raised as one.

Three Kinds of Breeders

I have acquired Maremmas from eight different breeders and I have bred and raised several dogs of my own, as well as kept in contact with multiple clients who've bought my pups over the years. I am not here to criticize other breeders, as we all have our own preferences and need to do what works for us. Raising puppies is hard work. Raising puppies and keeping them healthy and safe while also socializing them properly to livestock is REALLY hard work. Not everyone wants to sleep in the barn with their pregnant dogs (what I did before I built my puppy parlor) or trek back and forth to the barn to take care of those puppies for weeks on end. Personally I think if you want to raise puppies in your house or on your patio you should breed companion dogs instead of working LGD's but that's not my choice to make. It IS my choice to not ever buy puppies from such a breeder again and I won't. I have learned my lesson, several times. (Apparently once was not enough for me.) I won't make that mistake again. I promise.

The way I see it there are three ways breeders raise LGD puppies. First there are the "puppy mill" breeders. They are truly just lazy and greedy and are churning out pups without any real effort and with the least expense in order to maximize profits. The puppies could very well be "raised in a barn" but they still may not be getting any interaction with stock or any training. These are pups such as the OP's pups who were "raised in a pig pen". Often these pups are of questionable parentage and health. Unvaccinated, fed cheap dog food. These are the Craigslist dogs. Breed them, house them for 8 weeks (or less) and sell them quick and cheap. Repeat, repeat, repeat... These are the people that give breeders a bad name and they should be stopped. They should be arrested.

Then there are the "estate guardian" breeders. They are usually well to do and live in beautiful, high dollar homes with acreage. They may have a few token sheep, horses or chickens but they aren't serious farmers or homesteaders. They just like having a "cool" or "rare" breed to lay around looking pretty and keeping coyotes from pooping on their fancy lawns. They usually have beautiful, well bred, healthy dogs, which are registered and health tested. They may have even imported dogs or acquired them from great breeding programs. Their dogs truly are beautiful but most often they aren't really LGD's. They are pool and patio guardians. These breeders put little to no effort into socializing their pups to livestock. Since that's not how they use their own dogs they don't understand the importance. They feel that keeping their puppies on their patio or in their house for the first weeks or months is perfectly acceptable. Maybe they just don't understand puppy development or maybe they do but they feel the compromise is worth it. They believe that it's reasonable for them to raise the pups on their patio or in the comfort of their own home for 2, 3 or 4 months and then the new owners can take the puppies home and do the rest. And this works great if the new owners need their pool or patio guarded. Not so much if they need their goats, sheep or chickens guarded. Remember the "critical learning periods"? This method wastes the best time of the puppies' lives. In my opinion these breeders are almost as bad as the puppy mill breeders. Sure they might be taking good care of their puppies but what about the stock those puppies are going to harass and maybe even kill, all because they didn't want to train their puppies? Breeding dogs that will be responsible for the safety and very lives of other creatures is a very serious responsibility and shouldn't be taken lightly. 

Last are the truly "good breeders". These people are real farmers, livestock breeders and homesteaders. They depend on their dogs to keep their livestock safe, so they understand what it takes to produce a great LGD. They breed the kind of dogs they themselves need; true working LGD's. Their dogs might be registered or they might not, but the difference is in the effort, time and work the breeders put into their pups to ensure they are breeding true LGD's and not pool guardians, nor puppies that look like they came out of a rescue. These pups are born in a barn or a building near the stock, like my puppy parlor, or a dairy goat milking parlor or some similar set up designed to keep the pups safe and healthy without compromising the socialization of the pups with stock. These breeders put a lot of time and work into their pups. The pups and their parents are healthy, well fed and receive proper veterinary care. And they are well loved, too. Hopefully the parents are health tested but not all are. But the puppies get the safe, gentle, intensive early socialization with livestock as well as with humans and various experiences that will ensure they are set up for success in their new homes. This is how I raise my pups and the only kind of breeder I will buy pups from, now that I've truly seen the difference.
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Six week old Maremma puppies learning the language of goats and chickens.

We all Make Mistakes

​Luckily I have never made the mistake of buying puppies from a puppy mill breeder. I have acquired puppies from both the "estate guardian" breeder and the "good" breeder. The difference in these pups when I brought them home was striking. The difference is still apparent as juvenile or adult dogs. Now I didn't purposely set out to acquire "estate guardian" dogs. It just never occurred to me until AFTER I had several of these dogs in my possession that not everyone raises puppies the way I do, and the way the breeders I respect do. And I didn't realize the impact the puppies' early socialization would have on them, and me. I thought, like so many people do, that once I got these puppies home and put them out with my goats and other livestock that everything would go great. Boy was I wrong.

These dogs were all between 8 weeks and 4 months old when I brought them home. All had various issues. Some dogs simply didn't bond well to my livestock (not wanting to be near them), some of them harassed and chased my goats constantly and aggressively, some not only killed chickens but ate them. (I didn't let them with the chickens but my chickens trust white dogs and sadly they trusted the wrong dogs and sometimes wandered where they shouldn't have.) I had strangers driving by stop and knock on my door to tell me the dogs were harassing the goats. The most problematic of all the dogs actually broke a goat's leg. (She had seemed to be doing well but then she regressed.)                  
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This is Cedar, with Celeste. Celeste was well socialized as a puppy and has guarded my goats since she was 9 months old. She is an excellent LGD, gentle and sweet. Cedar's leg was broken by a different dog. Despite the fact that another dog hurt her Cedar still completely trusts Celeste. The difference is how the dogs act around the goats. Celeste never chases or harasses the goats. She was raised with sheep since she was a tiny puppy, taking advantage of her critical learning period. This allowed her to come to my farm and immediately go in with my goats. They trust her completely, as do I.

Nature or Nurture?

Now you might think this is bad genetics and for a while I worried that it was, too. But some of these dogs are completely unrelated to each other and some of them are related to dogs without temperament problems that were bred by me or by other breeders. The one difference is the early socialization of the puppies. If they were raised similarly to how I raise my pups they acclimated to my herd immediately and had few, if any, issues with inappropriate behavior with stock. If they were not raised in this manner they were hell on wheels. I have owned and trained a lot of Maremmas and I have NEVER been so challenged as I have been by these dogs. Unfortunately once I had them I couldn't do much but try to manage them. I certainly couldn't sell them to someone as LGD's. That would be disastrous and I'm not going to do that to the person or the dog. I would either end up getting the dogs back with more problems than before, or they would get dumped. And they might harm or even kill someone's stock. Definitely not an option. They are friendly with humans and I considered placing some of them in pet homes but the right home never came along. So here they stayed. And I won't lie, it's been ROUGH. But we are finely, after months and months, seeing progress. The older the dogs get the more they have settled. 

But I had to be VERY careful about livestock selection with all of them, as well as choosing partners for them. I'm very committed to having my dogs be with livestock as well as to always have a working partner. All of these dogs are dominant with other dogs so finding a dog they get along with was tricky. (I couldn't put them all together because they would fight with each other. Each one needed a very mellow dog partner, which meant that my easier dogs were often required to be put on babysitting duty with these difficult dogs, which is somewhat of a waste of their talent.) Finding stock they could be safe with was even trickier. Some absolutely couldn't be trusted with poultry, though one is better with poultry than with goats. Some chase horses, which would normally be a good choice for "biker chick" dogs. Some of them were too rough for my dairy goat does but did ok with my Mini Nubian bucks, who are big and stinky and not easily intimidated. I experimented until I found stock each dog seemed to do well with as well as a partner they got along with. Then I kept watching for signs of either problems or improvement. Over time they all made progress, though it was very slow progress. Most of them have progressed from bucks, to larger Nubian and Mini Nubian does, to Nigerian Dwarf does. (One of them is still only with the larger does but I will try her with Nigerians soon.) One of them is now guarding chickens and ducks and behaving perfectly. Another that used to chase horses is much better with them. I haven't tried them with baby goats yet but I think eventually they will be ok with them. Maybe not newborns but older kids.

How did I achieve these results? Well I didn't shock the dogs or use dangle sticks or any aversive, that's for sure. What training I did was only positive because that's the only way I train. But mostly I just matched the dogs with stock they could be safe with and dogs they got along with and waited for them to mature. Sometimes I made mistakes, such as when Cedar's leg was broken. Then it was back to the buck pasture for that dog. For most of them they were around 1.5-2 years old before I saw any real improvement. But luckily once I did things moved pretty quickly. For some it was almost like a switch went off. They just matured and got tired of their games. Mostly. They grew up.

But what's very telling is that I see the same level of maturity out of 6-10 month old pups that were bred and raised by me or breeders who use similar methods as I do out of these 18-24 month old dogs that were raised the opposite way. So yeah, these dogs can improve, but boy is it a lot of work. And I for one do not want to work that hard or wait that long for a puppy to mature and stop harassing stock. I would rather spend the first few months working hard to do everything I can to ensure those pups get a good start so I can relax later. But that's what works for me. Work smarter, not harder. Which is why I now ask to see PROOF (photos) of how a breeder socializes their pups before I'll consider buying a puppy from them. I don't care how beautiful your dog is or how good its hip scores are, if those puppies haven't gotten a proper start with livestock I am not interested.
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These goats and this pup were born and raised together and are well bonded.

Will My Dog's Behavior Improve?

If you've already bought dogs that didn't get the start they should have, don't despair, there is hope. With time and patience those instincts most likely will kick in and overcome the lack of socialization and you will probably end up with a good, if not great, LGD. It's not the dog's fault they weren't set up for success by their breeder. I had to remind myself of that fact over and over when I would get frustrated with those dogs. They were behaving exactly as they were socialized to do. Even blaming the breeder was pointless. I should have done my research. I should have paid more attention. What mattered was accepting the dogs I now had and working to bring out the best I could in them. It was my job to be patient with them and teach them how I wanted them to behave. So try to be patient with your pups and eventually you'll be rewarded. 

But if you haven't bought your pups yet, do yourself a favor. Do a lot of research before you choose a breeder. Don't just ask to see pedigrees and health test results. Ask for PROOF that those puppies are getting the proper socialization with stock. (Spend a little time on my website and social media and you'll find hundreds of photo of my dogs and puppies with stock.) Because that's exactly what I didn't notice when I made my mistake. I didn't notice what was missing in those cute puppy photos. Livestock. That's what was missing. There were no photos of the puppies with stock because they weren't with it. They were on the patio, by the pool, by the jacuzzi, in the house. Anywhere but with livestock.) So if the breeder can't show you lots of photos of both their parent dogs AND the puppies with livestock do yourself a huge favor. Find one that can. Because we all have cameras in our pockets, everywhere we go. It's called a cell phone. If the breeder isn't taking photos of their pups (or adult dogs, for that matter) with livestock it's because they aren't with stock. And you can never redo the critical learning period.
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How to Raise and Train Outstanding Livestock Guardian Dogs - "Finding Their Bark"

9/9/2022

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This was these puppies' first time seeing the horses up close. Leo, my elderly Arabian gelding, patiently allows this nervous puppy from Gianna's 2021 litter to bark at him, putting the puppy at ease. There's no need for me to interfere in this exchange as Leo is an excellent puppy trainer.

There is a stage in LGD puppy training and development that I call “Finding their bark.” They bark at EVERYTHING that looks suspicious to them, whether that’s a strange vehicle or person, an animal they haven’t met or aren’t quite sure about, a blowing leaf, someone they know wearing a hat or coat they've never seen before or just about anything. People often ask me how to teach puppies what to bark at and what not to bark at, or how to get them to stop barking at things that aren’t a real threat. I personally almost never try to discourage my dogs from barking, especially when they are still learning. Yes I know the barking can be annoying, especially when there’s no real threat, but barking is a LGD’s first and main line of defense. And they have much better sight, smell and hearing than we do and can perceive threats we would never notice. I want my puppies to learn to be discerning on their own, so that they know to bark when there’s a real threat. If I micromanage their barking then they may learn to doubt their own judgement and to look to me for direction. And that’s not going to protect my goats and other animals when I’m in the house asleep, or protect the animals of whomever ends up owning these awesome, barking puppies. So I encourage you to celebrate your barking LGD puppy, because it means they are on their way to being a great guardian for your stock!

The puppies barking at what they perceive as an "intruder" (my son, Noah, getting hay for the animals) in the barnyard. The puppies see Noah feeding every day but apparently  something was different about him this night, setting them off. Again, no need for me to do anything. The puppies can tell that I'm not concerned so they soon relaxed.

Polar's and Marisa's 2022 litters met the horses for the first time on this day. Apparently Blossom, the mini donkey, was a concern for this puppy. Notice how patient and calm Blossom is with the puppies. She's a seasoned puppy trainer and there's no need for me to say or do anything. I just let Blossom's calm behavior reassure the puppies and they soon accepted her.
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Why My Animals "Live on Dirt"

8/3/2022

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My granddaughter, Collette, with one of my Maremma puppies. She one of the many reasons why I live in the ugly, dry, drought-stricken Dust Bowl of Central California.
I have had some comments on social media posts lately asking why my animals "live on dirt".  Some people may not realize it but farming doesn't look the same in Central California as it looks in Maryland, Virginia, Tennessee, Florida, Guam (all places I have lived) or a lot of other places.

I live in the Central Valley of California. This is where most of the food in the country is grown, all watered by a huge irrigation system. Back when we first moved here (I'm from Tennessee and my husband is from Maryland) it used to rain only in the winter. We had two seasons. Dirt and Mud. But for about a decade we have been in a severe drought. We get almost no rain and very little snowfall. The snow is what our irrigation systems run on. We have been in such a severe drought for so long that wells are drying up, mature trees are dying and farms are closing. New housing developments are not even allowed to put in lawns in some areas. Only rock gardens and drought tolerant plants. Or fake grass. In some areas entire towns have dried up. On our farm alone we have lost 30-40 mature trees. They just died and fell down or had to be cut down. Almost all of my neighbors and friends have had to put in new wells, because their wells dried up. We are just waiting for it to be our turn.

So why do my animals "live on dirt"? Because there's no water to make grass grow. There's no rain and not enough water to irrigate such luxuries as grass. Even our small lawn struggles to make it. I buy every bite my horses and goats eat, in the form of alfalfa and other hay. This costs me over $2000 a month and it's getting harder and harder to even find hay, much less afford it. Farmers are growing other, more profitable crops instead.

I love grass, rain and trees. Unfortunately those are luxuries I can't have, at least not enough of. So why do I stay in such an ugly, brown dust bowl, you ask? My family. My husband served 40 years in the Navy. We had 6 kids during that career and we spent the last part of his tour here, in the dust bowl. And our children grew up, settled down, got married and had kids. We now have 12 grandkids and they all live in California. We did move back east for a time. Bought a farm in Virginia, where we had all the grass, rain and trees we wanted. But we left half of our family here, in the dust bowl. And with it we left our hearts. So we moved back here. We gave up our 12 acres of green grass in Virginia and willingly moved to the ugliest place on earth. Because though we love grass, trees and rain, we love our family more. And they make this ugly place the real "happiest place on earth".
  • Drought in California Growing Threat 
  • Central California in Exceptional Drought
  • Feds Predict 0% Water for Valley Farmers in 2022
  • Historical Drought in Central California
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About 8 months of hay for my goats and horses.
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    Author

    Hi I'm Kim. I have been an avid animal lover all my life but goats and dogs are my favorites so I built a business around them, breeding registered Mini Nubian & Nigerian Dwarf dairy goats and MSCA registered Maremma Sheepdogs. I love sharing my passion and knowledge of these amazing creatures with others.

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​"Above the arch there was a lamp, and beneath it swung a large signboard: a fat white pony reared up on its hind legs. Over the door was painted in white letters:
​The Prancing Pony by Barliman Butterbur."
~ from The Fellowship of the Ring: Being the First Part of The Lord of the Rings.

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